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American Morning

Former Security Adviser Discuses Middle East Conflagration

Aired April 09, 2002 - 08:12   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Our big question this morning, is Israeli Prime Minister Sharon's policy working? Israel's military operations to root out terrorists on the West Bank are now into its 12th day and more than a week has passed since there has been a terrorist bombing against Israeli civilians. Does that mean that Sharon's strategy has been on target?

President Bush yesterday, as he continued to press for Israeli withdrawal, said Israelis and Palestinians must each do their part to make the peace process work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There is a mutual responsibility to achieve peace and it's going to require leadership on both sides.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: And the president is getting some high marks from the public for his handling of the Middle East situation. Two thirds of Americans who responded to a new CNN poll say they approve of his policies. But former National Security Adviser Zbigniew Brzezinski has been quite critical of the administration's Mideast policy and he joins us now from Washington.

Welcome back. Good to see you again, sir.

ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: Good morning.

So, in spite of the fact that the Israelis have been recognizing sharp criticism from leaders all over the world, there has not been a suicide bombing in the last week. Does that indicate to you that, in fact, the Israeli strategy might be working militarily?

BRZEZINSKI: Well, I think there are two points to be made about that. The first point is at what price? How many people have been killed in the course of that strategy, including particularly civilians? On your own program you have just said maybe about 200. So the question is does that count? Is that not part of the price? Shouldn't that be taken into account? And the second question is this, what does history teach us? We know that in Vietnam with various forms of pacification, during WWII there were anti-guerrilla activities against partisans in Yugoslavia, Poland, Ukraine, and when the occupiers receded, the guerrilla activity resumed.

I think there will be a lapse in terrorism, but if there's no serious progress towards peace, it will resume, and that's what people should be concentrating on.

ZAHN: So why do you think the suicide bombings have receded over the last week?

BRZEZINSKI: Because of the massive disruption, the massive intervention, the shooting, the killing, the intimidation and the counter-terror, and that works for a while. There's no doubt about it. But as I said, it involves a very high price in terms of human suffering and deaths and it comes back. It bounces back.

ZAHN: Meanwhile, you have the secretary of state working his way to Jerusalem. He'll be there by Friday. And I wanted to quickly replay for you and our audience a little bit of what he had to say on the Sunday talk shows when he downplayed expectations for his trip. He said, "It is going to be a difficult trip. I am not going to come back at the end of this trip with a peace treaty in hand and I'm not even sure I'll have a cease-fire in hand."

What do you think he'll accomplish?

BRZEZINSKI: I think he's quite right, it's a very, very tough sell. But I think it's very evident to everyone, to the international community as a whole, that peace will never be reached by the parties themselves and simply resuming interim arrangements, cease-fires and so forth, is a prescription for the resumption of the terrorism, the counter-violence and the enormous human suffering that's involved, not to speak of the dangers that this poses for international peace and, indeed, for our own security in the United States.

ZAHN: You no doubt know that the king of Morocco posed the question to Secretary of State Powell yesterday, you know, why didn't you go to Jerusalem first. And it's quite clear his itinerary is now allowing for the secretary of state to move to Cairo today, then he moves to Madrid, where he'll be meeting with European Union heads and the head of the U.N.

Do you think this is part of the U.S. strategy to give Israel more time to, in fact, listen to the president's demand that they immediately withdraw from the incursion areas?

BRZEZINSKI: No. I think the president is sincere and he means it when he says enough is enough, and he wants the Israelis to withdraw immediately. I think what Secretary Powell is trying to do is to create a context, and I hope he's trying to do that, for a larger peace intravenous which builds on what Prince Abdullah proposed but which also mobilizes the Europeans and the U.N. and gets the parties to the conflict, the Israelis and the Palestinians, to focus on a comprehensive peace concept, which he then can lay and spell out.

I hope he's doing that. That would make his trip sensible.

ZAHN: So you think by the time...

BRZEZINSKI: And I hope he...

ZAHN: Oh, sorry to interrupt.

BRZEZINSKI: Can I...

ZAHN: I'm just curious whether you think by the time the secretary of state finally gets there on Friday whether you will see a complete withdrawal from these West Bank incursion areas?

BRZEZINSKI: I think if the president sticks to his guns, we could see it. But the question is how determined is the president?

ZAHN: A final question for you this morning. Secretary Powell also met with the crown prince of Saudi Arabia, who said Saudi Arabia would support the continuation of negotiations, but he demanded a couple things, not only the immediate Israeli withdrawal, but the deployment of American monitors on the ground and U.S. help in building Palestinian institutions destroyed during these Israeli incursions. Is any of that going to happen?

BRZEZINSKI: If there is movement towards peace it will have to happen, because peace can only be built with two parties. We can move the peace process forward. We can put on the table a peace proposal but ultimately it is the parties that have to live with it. We can help them live with it, for example, by putting in American and NATO troops, but we have to have the two parties. And that means the Palestinian Authority has to be there to sign a peace treaty with Israel.

ZAHN: All right, we're going to have to leave it there this morning. Zbigniew Brzezinski, always good to see you. Thank you again for dropping by on A.M.

BRZEZINSKI: Good to talk to you.

ZAHN: Our pleasure.

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