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American Morning
Interview with Dr. Henry Kissinger
Aired April 10, 2002 - 07:07 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now we move back to the search for peace in the Middle East. Secretary of State Colin Powell arrived last night in Madrid, his final stop before heading to Israel tomorrow.
Now, in addition to meeting with Ariel Sharon, the secretary of state has announced that he will meet with Yasser Arafat inside his Ramallah compound. and this morning, Powell joined United Nations Secretary General Kofi Annan, as well as representatives from Russia, the European Union and Spain in condemning today's bombing, but also calling for an immediate Israel pullout from the West Bank.
Powell says there is no deadline for his peace mission, but his ability to broker a cease-fire could be doomed by the escalation violence, which has now spread to Israel's northern border. Hezbollah guerrillas fired rockets from Lebanon into the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights this morning, and that brings us to our big question at this hour: Is there a second front in this Middle East conflict?
Joining us now to talk about this and Secretary Powell's mission and the latest Middle East developments, former Secretary of State Dr. Henry Kissinger -- welcome back -- good to see you.
HENRY KISSINGER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Good to be here.
ZAHN: So what do you make of these latest actions in northern Israel, and then, Israel, of course, firing back into Lebanon because of these missile attacks? Is this a new front?
KISSINGER: It's too early to tell. One has to remember, these attacks come from an area that the Israelis vacated unconditionally a year-and-a-half ago. So it complicates the peace mission regardless of whether they escalate. But these rockets come from a place which Israel evacuated and that was supposed to be de-militarized afterwards.
If there's danger of a second front, I have great hopes that when the secretary of state gets into the area and tells each side what they must do, that it will lead to a cease-fire. And I think it should be given every opportunity to do so.
ZAHN: In advance of that, though, how likely is it that Lebanon is trying to provoke Israel into taking more action than they really want to that would bring Syria into all of this?
KISSINGER: Lebanon isn't trying to do it. It's the Hezbollah, which is...
ZAHN: Supported by Syria.
KISSINGER: It's supported by Syria and Iran that may do probably (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Up until now, Syria has been very reluctant to get into a war with Israel, because that would have to be fought with regular armies, and they will truly lose. But it is certainly a warning to Israel of the dangers that it is facing and of the complexities if there is no settlement.
ZAHN: It's interesting to note this morning that the secretary of state's language has changed from over the weekend, when he talked about a prospective meeting with Yasser Arafat as, you know, the circumstances permit, to now he will emphatically meet with Yasser Arafat. What does that say about Ariel Sharon in all of this?
KISSINGER: Well, I would not make this a contest between two men. Those are very deep-seated causes. The visit of the American secretary of state to Arafat two weeks after Arafat has been declared irrelevant and has been told that he might be expelled represents a victory of sorts for the Palestinians.
On the other hand, the real problem is, can we get both sides to do what needs to be done to get a cease-fire, which means an unambiguous condemnation of suicide bombings and some definition of normalization by the Arabs, and a withdrawal by Israel to the lines they had before the fighting started. So that has to be achieved before a cease-fire can go into effect.
ZAHN: So you're comfortable with the notion of a political settlement being discussed in advance of a cease-fire being declared?
KISSINGER: No. First there has to be a cease-fire, and as soon as there is a cease-fire, there should be discussions of a political settlement. The cease-fire has to have as a component the element of withdrawal and the element of condemnation of suicide bombings, plus some definition of what the Palestinians or the Arabs mean by normalization. Just recognizing the state is where diplomacy begins for all other nations. That usually isn't a concession.
ZAHN: There's a lot of analysis in the papers this morning that Secretary of State Powell is on a different track than the administration said it would go on, when they adamantly said we will not talk about a political settlement until a cease-fire is declared. And yet, isn't that exactly what is happening now?
KISSINGER: Well, they are not yet talking about a political settlement, and it may not be possible to separate the two. And one ought to always keep in mind if one discusses a political settlement while suicide bombing is going on, one is really reaching a point where one is rewarding suicide bombing. And it is crucial that if a settlement is reached, the suicide bombers or the radicals who sponsor them cannot go around and say that they extracted from America a role that we would never have played except for suicide bombing, because then we will see it spread to us. So we have to keep in place absolute opposition to terrorists. The president has done so decisively all along, plus whatever political conditions we foresee (ph) for a settlement.
ZAHN: In your judgment, is Yasser Arafat a terrorist?
KISSINGER: In my judgment, it is not for us to decide, and not for the Israelis to decide who the head of the Palestinian Authority should be. He has certainly tolerated terrorism, and he has certainly permitted its strategic use by, at a minimum, extreme ambiguity. And in my view, he will reach the end of the line if he now does not perform his part. I don't see how -- observing how the president reacts to these things, how he can go many more rounds with Arafat if he does not unambiguously oppose terrorism at this point.
ZAHN: Is Secretary of State Powell violating the Bush doctrine by sitting down and potentially negotiating with Yasser Arafat, who the Israelis have said is a terrorist?
KISSINGER: I look at the discussion as an American attempt to give Arafat one last chance and to demonstrate to the other Arabs that it is not at the selection of an individual PLO leader that's involved here, but the conduct of operations based on terrorism. And after all we have said, we cannot have a peace process while terrorism goes on without being opposed by the participants.
On the other hand, the president has also made very clear demands on Israel, and Powell will have to walk through that mine field and deserves all of our support.
ZAHN: Very quickly in closing, you made some interesting phraseology about this potentially being the end of the line for Yasser Arafat. If this doesn't work out, are you suggesting he will be expelled or just replaced by someone else from the Palestinian region?
KISSINGER: No, I am not saying that he will be expelled, but I think the United States will certainly draw conclusions, and it's fundamental to the American position that we will not deal under the threat of terrorism. It's not an issue for Israel. This is an issue of what will happen in the whole rest of the world if the people who are sponsoring terrorism and suicide bombings can say it was they who achieved the success. Whatever success is to be achieved should be credited to the American diplomacy that people have so insisted and demanded, and to our initiative and to our anti-terrorism campaign and not the suicide bombers. That's a very crucial issue.
ZAHN: All right. We're going to have to leave it there this morning. Dr. Henry Kissinger, thank you for dropping by our studios in person -- travel well. He is headed off to China. Have a safe trip.
KISSINGER: Thank you.
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