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American Morning

Sound Off: Is Bush Betraying His Own Doctrine?

Aired April 10, 2002 - 08:46   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: And now on to this morning's "Soundoff." Secretary of State Colin Powell says he will sit down with Yasser Arafat in his attempt to resolve the current Middle East conflict, but there are questions about whether negotiating with Arafat at all violates the so-called bush doctrine. It's something the president alluded to not long after 9/11.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Joining us now from Washington Bob Beckel, Democratic political strategist, and Cliff May, with the Foundation for the Defense of Democracy.

Good morning, gentlemen. Good to see both of you.

BOB BECKEL, DEMOCRATIC POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Good morning.

CLIFF MAY, FOUNDATION FOR THE DEFENSE OF DEMOCRACY: Good morning.

MAY: Good morning, Bob.

BECKEL: Good morning, Cliff.

ZAHN: Started with you last time. Cliff gets to go first today, Bob.

Let's talk a little bit about what's going on in the Middle East. You now have Prime Minister Ariel Sharon saying it will be a tragic mistake for Secretary Powell to sit down and talk with Yasser Arafat. They consider him a terrorist. Is the president violating his own doctrine here?

MAY: You know, Paula, I think President Bush has been an inspired leader in this war, and the Bush doctrine is the right blueprint for fighting the war on terrorism.

ZAHN: Where does Arafat fit into it? MAY: Arafat is someone we knew when Cheney went there was encouraging and harboring terrorists within his midst.

ZAHN: Is he a terrorist?

MAY: We know that he is, Paula. We now know from what the Israelis have found, is that Arafat not only encourages terrorism, he signs the checks, signs the checks for the bombs, which is why I do have to say, Paula, it is wrong at this point I think for Secretary Powell to go and call on Arafat, who has been sponsoring terrorism, has been paying terrorists, and has refused to do the one thing Bush had asked say in one clear sentence in English and Arabic that terrorism is wrong and suicide bombing is terrorism. He won't do that. What message does it send if now Powell goes and pays a call and says "I hope you can be helpful, Mr. Arafat."

ZAHN: Bob, what message does it send?

BECKEL: It sends a realistic message is time to do something. I don't know what the Bush doctrine exactly means. I mean, it sound nice, but it's never really been very well defined.

MAY: We'll explain it to you, Bob.

MAY: Thank you, Cliff. Please don't do it right now.

The point is, that I think Bush should have been in there earlier. Powell should have been in the region months ago. They missed an opportunity to continue on the dialogue. And I tell you what got their attention, when oil went to $10 a barrel. That's when all of a sudden the Bush doctrine took a turn.

ZAHN: All right, Bob, so then you agree it is the appropriate thing now for secretary of state though; even though you have lost valuable time, now is the time to sit down and talk with Yasser Arafat?

BECKEL: Absolutely. What is the alternative? What is the alternative.

ZAHN: Let me ask you this, what do you say to folks like Cliff who refer to this as sort of a two-tier doctrine, it's one treatment for Al Qaeda and another treatment for Yasser Arafat?

BECKEL: I say that's politics. I didn't fall off the turnip truck last night, and neither did he. I mean, the fact of the matter is, the reality is, that this is an entirely different situation than Afghanistan, and if you want to talk about terrorists, you really want to extend it out, now this is where I'll go way out on a limb, Ariel Sharon, let's not forget, this is a guy that allowed the Christian Jews in Lebanon to massacre hundreds of thousands of people at Shavah Tekalah (ph) in the camps. Now you want to define him as a terrorist? What's a terrorist? Bush will find friends with every thug in the country.

MAY: Bob, you're going on and on and on. At some point we have to say what Bush has said. At some point, we have to say, that terrorism is not right, no matter the complaint, no matter the grievance.

I'm saying, Bob, and I know you agree with me, that when Arafat tells some 15-year-old kid to put on a belt, filled with explosives, walk across the border, and blow up people in a bus or restaurant, we know that's terrorism, that's wrong. Now if the Israelis do anything like that, we should criticize them for it.

But what we cannot do is say that terrorism is wrong, blowing up an innocent civilian is wrong, unless of course it's only Israelis, unless of course it's only Jews. That's a wholly different thing. And you know, look, the U.S. government says that Al Aqsa brigades, Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, those are terrorist organization, according to the U.S. government. Those organizations are either led by or encouraged by Arafat. It is a problem to see Arafat when he has not made any concession on this point.

BECKEL: Here is the hypocrisy, Cliff, and founded by Saudi Arabia, who sends these people out of the country.

MAY: You're right. You're right.

BECKEL: They want a way to declare Saudi Arabia a terrorist regime. We don't do it. You know why? It's about oil. You know, I'll tell you, I didn't realize there was such -- that the Republicans were the party of diversity. I mean, you've got both Bush and Cheney from two different oil companies.

ZAHN: Ouch.

MAY: There is a problem. There is a problem. You are right with Saudi Arabia. And with other nations that push the Islamic militant agenda, which says that infidels need to be conquered or killed, and that's what they're trying to do, the little Satan here in Israel and the big Satan here in the United States.

BECKEL: Cliff, answer my question. Saudi Arabia has put money. Most of the people who took those planes down were Saudis. They send them to Pakistan for training. Now why don't we take on Saudi Arabia? Why?

MAY: We have, what we have said.

BECKEL: Oh, get out of here.

MAY: Listen to me, let me answer your question. What we have said to be Arab nations, and this hasn't gotten as much reporting as it should, is that the Arab nations need to speak up and say terrorism is wrong and suicide bombing is wrong, including the Palestinian situation. And you know what? We have not heard that from Saudi Arabia. We have not heard that from Mubarak. We have not even heard that from places like Morocco.

ZAHN: At the Arab League Summit, there was even a statement, was there not, basically saying the intifada was justified. MAY: Yes, there was, and also praising the martyrs, praising those who go and blow themselves up if they also kill Israelis at the same time. That's what took place in Beirut. That message was sent that terrorism is justified if it is against the small say state of Israel. And believe me, that message gets out there that terrorism sometimes succeeds, and that encourages terrorism.

ZAHN: But, Cliff, let me ask you this, if you think that Arafat is a terrorist and Colin Powell shouldn't be negotiating with him, then how do you break this impasse?

MAY: Listen, it's not easy. But there are plenty of other Palestinians who would like to speak up, and who would like to live in peace with their Israeli neighbors. They would dare not do so right now. There is no opposition parties in the Palestinian territories. We have every day so-called collaborators being summarily executed without a trial. Once Arafat -- if Powell said I am going to speak with Palestinians, but not Arafat, somebody would speak with him, and then you could begin to negotiate a peaceful settlement of this conflict.

ZAHN: Final word this morning, Bob Beckel?

BECKEL: If not Arafat, who? There is nobody else to talk to. Yes, he is a terrorist. Frankly, the money is coming from terrorists in our friendly countries in the Middle East. Powell should be there. They should have been there nine months ago. Bush blew this one, and by the way, ruined any chance he had to go into Iraq.

MAY: Iraq remains to be done. Look, Arafat has dealt with five different prime ministers. Why is it so crazy that there could be another leader other than Arafat of the Palestinians, one that would represent them better.

ZAHN: All right, got to break it right there, gentlemen.

Bob Beckel, Cliff May, as always, good to see the two of you.

Thanks for joining us this morning.

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