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American Morning

Dating of Bin Laden Tape Difficult

Aired April 18, 2002 - 07:10   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: We are now going to move on to the Osama bin Laden tape. This one is believed to have been made as late as December.

In it, a grinning bin Laden gloats about the financial and emotional devastation of the September 11 terrorist attack. And now CNN is reporting that the believed mastermind of the attack was actually injured at around the same time while hiding in the caves of Tora Bora.

And joining us now for more on the hunt for bin Laden and the war on terrorism, from Washington, CNN security analyst, Kelly McCann, and from Chicago this morning, CNN military analyst, General David Grange -- welcome, gentlemen -- good morning to both of you.

J. KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Good morning.

BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Hi, Paula.

ZAHN: All right. Kelly, let's start off with your analysis of the latest bin Laden tape that has been released. Donald Rumsfeld has made it very clear it is almost impossible to determine exactly when it was shot. But tell us what your reaction is to what we have learned from it.

MCCANN: Well, I think what it shows, Paula, is the cunningness of him obviously. We have not been able to substantiate whether he was dead or alive. And while a lot of people were thinking that he was going to likely to be found in the southeast portion of Afghanistan, a lot of us believed that in the northwest, the kind of cowboy country if you will, that there was ample places for him to go there.

So even though this tape might have been made in December, it still isn't indicative of life or death now. So we still don't know a whole lot more than we did previously, other than it dates it December.

ZAHN: And meanwhile, General, the military intelligence officials are telling CNN they believe Osama bin Laden might have been injured during the battle of Tora Bora. What do you make of that report?

GRANGE: Well, some of the tapes, if you look at them, he looks a bit weak. You know, a lot of people say it's because of his kidney problems, that he could have been wounded. Who knows? But he is obviously under either physical stress from wounds or mental stress from being hounded constantly in this pursuit to hunt him down.

So I believe he may be injured, but I do believe that he is probably in Pakistan right now.

ZAHN: And why do you believe that?

GRANGE: Just because of the sanctuaries, how the tribal entities are split up between the border areas. Borders, as we have discussed before, are very difficult to monitor, to control, to get permission across. And it's just advantageous to enemies to work border areas. It's an advantage to them.

ZAHN: All right. Kelly, I don't whether you saw the report in "Time" magazine earlier this week, but there was a report that U.S. forces are trying to undertake a raid in Pakistan and suggesting how serious this plan is. Apparently, the president sent Assistant Secretary of State Christian Rocca -- excuse me -- Christina Rocca to the region to meet with President Musharraf. What does that indicate to you?

MCCANN: Well, two things. One is it's worthy of note that prior to them going in with 3,000 to 4,000 Pakistani troops, that was no- man's land. In fact, they didn't patrol there. That was hands-off, because of exactly what General Grange just mentioned. It's very, very mountainous and hard to deal with and full of cowboys.

And so I think it indicates that, once again, this is an operational war that probably won't be fought in the media, and that they are reacting to information that people have that shows the whole picture. Only those people, Condoleezza Rice, Rumsfeld, the president, and those people, General Franks, know the whole story. And so it may be a very good indication that through all sources (UNINTELLIGIBLE) intelligence, identified very credible information that puts a target -- what that target is, who knows -- but put a target in that region.

ZAHN: All right. General Grange, yesterday, as you know, there was a front-page story in "The Washington Post" suggesting that the military missed bagging Osama bin Laden, because of some miscalculations that were made about the effectiveness of our Afghan allies. And yesterday, this is how the administration reacted to that charge. I'm going to put this little quote up on the screen. It said: "The goal there was never after specific individuals. It was to disrupt the terrorists" -- your reaction.

GRANGE: Well, the overall goal is to disrupt and destroy the terrorist networks and their capability to operate, to deny them the sanctuaries. But it's also the mission -- I disagree with part of that, because the mission is to decapitate the leadership, the leaders, the brains behind the operations, those that give orders. You have to take out the command and control. So leaders must be targeted. This -- you have to combine air and ground operations together, and when that's not synchronized properly, for instance if you just bomb an area then go in afterwards, there's a time period there where you can miss either finding bodies or grabbing people trying to flee the target site.

So it has to be synchronized air and ground immediately, together, to get the best effects.

ZAHN: And, Kelly, in spite of what the administration was telling us yesterday, it has been made clear by a number of Pentagon reporters that the strategy has changed since December, and now U.S. ground forces are being used in situations where they wouldn't have been used before.

MCCANN: Sure. This is analogous part (ph). Did you ever buy anything, and after you by it, you have a friend that says, geez, you could have gotten that cheaper here? This is -- you know, in the totality of information at that time, we did exactly what that information led us to do.

In fact, the information that we had was we had to make relations with the Pashtuns. That was of primary importance. And don't forget that the Afghanis ponied up and said that they would clear the caves. Then it goes to combat efficiency. Their idea and standards of effectiveness is significantly different than the western world's idea of standards of effectiveness.

So while they thought or may have thought, geez, we did enough to clear these caves, it probably wasn't the U.S. standard, No. 1. And No. 2, when we said, hey, we're not done. We need to do more, they refused. So you know, it's kind of a quarterback -- a Monday morning quarterback situation, I think.

ZAHN: All right, gentlemen. We will continue to bring you back from time to time as the administration tries to close in on Osama bin Laden, if in fact he is alive. J. Kelly McCann, General David Grange -- thanks for your time this morning.

GRANGE: Thanks.

MCCANN: Thanks, Paula.

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