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American Morning

Interview with Terje Roed-Larsen

Aired April 22, 2002 - 09:21   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Israel has now pulled its troops out most of the West Banks cities it occupied leaving soldiers in Bethlehem and surrounding Yasser Arafat's compound in Ramallah. But there is a major controversy about really happened when the Israeli military invaded the Jenin Palestinian refugee camp. Israel has agreed to let the United Nation send a fact-finding team into Jenin but a senior Israeli official said that no one that is thought to be unfriendly to Israel would be accepted as member of that team.

And among those already rejected Terje Roed-Larsen. He was the U.N. special coordinator to the Middle East who has been widely known as a supporter of the peace process. And Roed-Larsen infuriated Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and other cabinet members after he visited Jenin last week and publicly blasted Israel for the destruction brought by the operation. And Mr. Roed-Larsen joins us live from Beirut. Good morning. Good to have you with us this morning sir, welcome.

TERJE ROED-LARSEN, SPECIAL ENVOY TO THE MIDDLE EAST, UNITED NATIONS: Good morning to you.

ZAHN: So Mr. Roed-Larsen, among other things, you've had an Israeli cabinet secretary saying that you're comments about Jenin were "distorted, harmful and one-sided". The attorney general of Israel called your comments lies and baseless. Your reaction to those criticisms?

ROED-LARSEN: My reaction is that I've been totally misrepresented in parts of the Israeli media, evidently quoting me wrongly saying that I had stated that there was a massacre in Jenin. I said nothing of the sort. What I did, on the ground, was describing what I saw in front of me.

What I saw was an area looking as if there had been an earthquake there. I saw people digging up dead decaying bodies with their hands. I saw a 12-year-old kid being dug up in front of me. And what I did on camera was saying that I was shock and horrified by what I saw. And I think any decent human being, whatever background political leaning would have reacted on a purely human base, the way I did ...

ZAHN: And of course ...

ROED-LARSEN: ... and I stand by what I said.

ZAHN: Yeah of course, the Israeli attorney general went on to say and we're going to put this up on the screen, now. If he was working within the framework of his job, he should have turned to the Israeli government to check these things instead of coming out with these types of accusations. Does the attorney general have any point there?

ROED-LARSEN: Well I'm sure that if the attorney general was with me there in that rubble, he would have reacted exactly the same way as I did. I mean, whatever course (ph) that one comes from, when one sees human suffering like this, I think everybody would have reacted being horrified. There was a stench of decaying bodies there, which was absolutely awful.

But that is not implied that I said it was a massacre. These are horrors of war. And I cannot judge if there was a massacre or not. And this is why everybody should now be relieved that there will be a fact-finding mission who would find out what happened there. And after that, we can all judge.

ZAHN: Mr. Roed-Larsen, it's interesting to note that one of our correspondents Sheila MacVicar has just finished interviewing the captured senior Hamas member, his name is Tabat Marquali (ph). And he happened to be captured in Jenin last week and he's being held at secure Israeli facility now. And he says there was no massacre in Jenin but there was a raging battle. What do you think of that characterization?

ROED-LARSEN: Well, I can - certainly I was not there. And none of my staff members were there during the battle. This is why I have said and I repeat it again, I cannot judge what happened on the battle.

What we, in the U.N., have been commenting on was what happened after the battle. And that's related to the humanitarian - to the humanitarian situation. And what we think should have happened there is that there should a search and research operation conducted, an international humanitarian organization should have been allowed in there.

I have not given any comments nor raised the issue of a massacre. That's why I don't want to comment on it and I have not comments on it.

ZAHN: All right.

ROED-LARSEN: I don't know what happened there.

ZAHN: Let's move on to what Gideon Meir had to say. He is a Senior Foreign Ministry Official for Israel and he has called the Jenin refugee camp, "an assembly line for suicide bombers". Did you see any evidence of that as you toured the refugee camp?

ROED-LARSEN: No, I was for about three hours in the refugee camp. And I spent most of the time in the rubble in the middle of the refugee camp. I didn't go into any houses or anything. But it sounds very likely or not only very likely, we know that there was armed elements in this refugee camp. And it is against international humanitarian law to have armed elements in a refugee camp. And we are four square against violations of the humanitarian law, whether it is from this side or that side.

ZAHN: I'm just curious how much you think of the Israeli action has to do with the fact that you were a special coordinator for Kofi Annan at the U.N. in secret talks that eventually led to the 1993 Oslo Agreement. Is this criticism personal in some ways?

ROED-LARSEN: I don't know. I was not actually working for the U.N. at the time. I was working for the Norwegian Foreign Ministry at the time. I mean one can speculate about that. I can have no opinions about it. But I must say I'm pretty puzzled that I'm accused of saying there was a massacre when I, in fact, never said so and never meant so. There will be a fact-finding commission, which will find the facts there and then we can all draw our conclusions.

ZAHN: As a man who has devoted countless hours to the kind of work that you do, how hurtful has this criticism been to you on a personal level not just a professional level?

ROED-LARSEN: Of course, I mean it doesn't feel good when I'm accused of something, which is not true. And, of course I feel it as very unfair. But at the same time, I have great empathy for both parties here. It's a terrible situation for Palestinians and Israelis alike.

On the Israeli side with this despicable, horrible terrorist suicide bombing, which are taking place and for the Palestinian, the vast part of the population is now suffering deeply. There's an unemployment rate of 75 percent, over half the population is below the poverty rate.

And it's such a situation people easily jump to conclusions, become hot-headed, et cetera So I don't bare any grudge to anybody after what had happened but I hope that we can get into a cooler and calmer atmosphere and continue working with both parties in trust and confidence.

ZAHN: I think you'll have a lot of support for that closing thought. Terje Roed-Larsen, thank you very much for joining us. We appreciate your ...

ROED-LARSEN: It has been a pleasure being with you.

ZAHN: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE) this morning.

ROED-LARSEN: Thank you very much.

ZAHN: Our pleasure as well.

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