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American Morning

Six Surrender at Church of Nativity

Aired April 24, 2002 - 08:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Up front this morning, another effort at ending the tense stand-off at the Church of the Nativity. Two more, six Palestinians have left the church, surrendering to Israeli soldiers. Israeli negotiators are meeting in Bethlehem at this hour to try to find a peaceful solution to the volatile situation.

And CNN's Jerrold Kessel was in Manger Square, where he got exclusive interviews with the negotiators.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JERROLD KESSEL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A very opaque window of opportunity, but talks at last about how to end the bitter struggle around the beleaguered basilica of the Nativity, a siege that's now stretched into a fourth week. The talks in the now ineptly named Peace Center, on the walls posters lauding Palestinian fighters who led and died in the intifada uprising.

No breakthrough yet, but at least there are handshakes. They're even listening to each other, they say. But it's now a double barreled battle of wills around one of Christendom's holiest sites and at the table.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a negotiation where one is in negotiation with two sides. You must listen what they have to say. So we'll listen. They listen. And I hope it will be a good or positive solution.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am talking convictions now and faith. Peace is inevitable, whether they like it, we like it or not. It is our fate to live together as neighbors. In spite of the bitterness of the present moment, there should be people who could see the sun behind the clouds.

KESSEL: The Palestinians accuse Israel of trying to starve the wanted men out. The Israeli Army says dozens of young Palestinian boys are essentially hostage to the gunmen. So, too, 30 odd clergymen, monks and nuns. Yet, could the medieval style siege outlast the talks? Could the besieged gunmen outlast their hunger?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They can. They can. Sometimes when we were in prison we were on hunger strike for 20 days. They can.

KESSEL: How long will Israel persist? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All the time.

(on camera): Is how much time?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All time is all time needed in order to solve this crisis peacefully. Because the main point is to solve this crisis peacefully. It's complicated but it's the best alternative among the other ones.

KESSEL: It's true that both sides seem to have done their best not to escalate this crisis in a way that would damage the church itself. And when this conflict is resolved here, it will be on political principles, a political deal not based on religious considerations.

(voice-over): And now, though, the most basic issues must still be addressed. The abbot of the Armenian monastery, Father Rasmig (ph), is among the church men and women, custodians of the holy site who are caught in the middle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let them think we've (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want some food.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's bread. It's bread. It's bread. Just bread. Just bread. Just bread.

KESSEL: Father Rasmig takes the parcel and disappears back into his monastery to confront further tests of his faith on the edge of a square where faith in the other is in short supply, very short supply.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KESSEL: And, you know, Paula, in Manger Square yesterday where we were with the first couple of crews down there in the three weeks of the siege who were in Manger Square, you got a real sense of the desolation of the situation as there was precious little movement. But amidst the fact that there was almost no movement, there was a distinct sense of momentum, that there may be a way to resolution of this conflict at last.

But having said that, still no breakthrough. The talks are due to resume now and the only movement there was volatile stuff today because a Palestinian gunman was shot and seriously wounded. The Israelis say he was preparing to shoot at them from one of the windows of the church. They say that one of their snipers shot him first. He was wounded, taken to an Israeli hospital, is under arrest and there are two Palestinians who have come out this morning saying they wanted to surrender. But so far the siege continues and the stand-off continues -- Paula.

ZAHN: Jerrold, let's talk about another thing that the Israelis have to confront, and that is the likelihood of this U.N. mission coming to Jenin. The Israelis protest the makeup of the team. They said it's very important to have some sort of military person there to understand what they describe as the terrorist infrastructure in Jenin.

Where do you see this going? Do you think the Israelis will just end up with a team that's not to their liking?

KESSEL: It's a difficult question to ask. There's certainly a major bump on the road to those efforts after the secretary of state was here to try to smooth the way towards further stabilization once the bulk of the Israeli military offensive in the West Bank was over and it had been believed that with the Security Council and the secretary, the U.N. secretary general sending this fact finding mission, that would at least take the heat out of this very heated argument over Jenin.

Now, it's very much back on the table and the Israelis are standing pat saying there need to be more exploration with the U.N. about the composition of the team and their mandate. But Secretary General Anan seems to say no way. He's sending the commission nonetheless.

I think the key to this will be what will be Washington's attitude. Will the United States back the Israelis on this, say there needs to be a rethinking of the fact finding mission, or at least that they need to keep their original mandate? Or will they say Israel must buckle to what it's got and show and prove that it has nothing to hide as it says it has nothing to hide over Jenin.

But I think there's some stormy diplomatic days ahead -- Paula.

ZAHN: And we'll be talking to you to keep us posted.

Before we let you completely take a break here, there has been some attention this morning on two of the Palestinians who apparently have walked out of the Church of the Nativity because they were ill, surrendering themselves to Israeli personnel. What is the significance of that?

KESSEL: Maybe significant, maybe not. From what we know, they are not among the gunmen, or at least not among the wanted men. There are believed to be some 30 that the Israelis have on their wanted list of the Palestinian gunmen. There are others with weapons, but they may be from the Palestinian police and so forth. But it's the 30 the Israelis really want.

Now, we understand, I was reporting to you about that, the man who was hit in that even exchange, or not an exchange of fire, this morning. He was, we understand, on Israel's wanted list.

Now, the two have come out today. We don't know if they had weapons or not, the exact circumstances of how they got through to the Israelis to come out. It could be that the Israeli siege is wearing down a lot of people. But as you heard there one of the Palestinian negotiators, they said they can hold out a long time yet. Well, it remains to be seen who will hold out against whom.

It really does seem to be something of a medieval style siege there. No holds barred at all -- Paula.

ZAHN: And when you were talking about those two men potentially being members of the police force, we're now able to confirm, in fact, that a Palestinian journalist recognized those two guys and, as you said, they are not two of the most wanted men in there. They, in fact, are members of the Palestinian police force.

Jerrold Kessel, thanks so much for the update. Appreciate your time.

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