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American Morning

Operation Mountain Lion in Full Swing Along Afghanistan- Pakistan Border

Aired April 30, 2002 - 07:08   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: As we just heard from Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, Operation Mountain Lion is in full swing along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. With U.S. and coalition troops hunting suspected al Qaeda fighters, as you can see here, cave by cave.

We are going to talk now about some of the conditions they are facing, as they fight in this mountainous no-man's land. Eric Margolis has traveled extensively in the region. He is the author of "War at the Top of the World," and he joins us now from Toronto -- good of you to join us -- good morning.

ERIC MARGOLIS, AUTHOR, "WAR AT THE TOP OF THE WORLD": Good morning.

ZAHN: We just heard Barbara Starr sort of isolate some of the problems that these troops are up against. Among other things, not only return fire from Taliban and al Qaeda members, but now the threat of being caught in the crossfire of warring tribal lords. How tough is it out there?

MARGOLIS: This is one of the most dangerous parts of the world, the tribal territories of northwest Pakistan, the old frontier, made up of Pashtun tribes, who are notorious for their war-like qualities. They are very strong supporters of Taliban and of Osama bin Laden. The United States is now edging into Pakistani, this territory. It's getting sucked deeper into the war in Afghanistan in a second country.

It's a dangerous situation for the U.S., and the primary dangers comes not from the rugged topography, but from the fact of telling who is al Qaeda, who is Taliban and who are just local Pashtun tribesmen, who do not recognize the border between Pakistan and Afghanistan and move freely across it.

ZAHN: So how do our Special Forces do that?

MARGOLIS: Well, with very great difficulty. And on top of this, this area is the favorite area, I saw myself, for smugglers. This is one of the main routes, routes for morphine base coming out of Afghanistan. The trade has been resumed with the overthrow of Taliban, and these are all smugglers routes. So in smugglers' caravans, I believe this is how Osama bin Laden got out of Afghanistan along these routes. So the U.S. troops are in a very confused situation. They are in one of these Vietnam-style search-and-destroy missions, looking through caves and across broken rocks and in ravines. Very hard for them to tell who is the real enemy, and if they shoot the wrong people, they are going to make new enemies.

ZAHN: All right. I am hearing you use words like Vietnam-style action, and the U.S. troops are getting sucked deeper and deeper into this cycle. You are making it sound like you don't think this is such a smart idea the way these U.S. forces are going about this.

MARGOLIS: I am very concerned. I was in the U.S. Army during the Vietnam War, and I know about mission creep and search-and- destroy. And I'm not saying the two wars are equivalent, but the U.S. was supposed to be in Afghanistan for quick police action to try and find bin Laden. It didn't work.

Now, the U.S. is getting permanently installed in Afghanistan, training an army, setting up bases, setting up bases in central Asia, turn Pakistan practically into a U.S. protector, and it's moving troops now into Pakistan. I am worried that the U.S. is overextending itself and getting involved in murderous Afghan tribal politics.

ZAHN: But, Eric, what other choice do U.S. troops have at this point?

MARGOLIS: Well, if the mission had been confined to commando raids against the Taliban and al Qaeda leadership where they could be identified, and then withdrawn, the U.S. could have declared victory and gotten out. Now, the problem is that if U.S. withdraws troops from any place, these so-called Taliban and al Qaeda are going to filter back in, and the U.S. will be accused of having pulled out.

So once you occupy a country, very hard to get out, and this is what Afghanistan is notorious for, easy to invade, hard to leave.

ZAHN: But you do understand how difficult it is for U.S. troops to pull out at this point now, and when U.S. officials are confirming they have seen fresh tracks they believe to be that put down by al Qaeda in and around that border of Afghanistan and Pakistan.

MARGOLIS: Well, I don't know how you tell an al Qaeda footprint from a tribesmen footprint. The number of al Qaeda has been grossly exaggerated. I don't think there was ever more than 1,000, maybe even less, al Qaeda fighters. Then there is Taliban, and then there are other groups, like Uzbeks and Kashmiri Mujahideen.

So there is very confusion -- there is a lot of confusion about who our actual enemies are there. And in the process, what's happening is that we are hearing that more and more Afghan -- local Afghan tribesmen are now joining anti-American forces in the fighting, and they fight for a while, and then they blend back into the civilian population.

ZAHN: What do you make of the latest reports this morning that intelligence is suggesting that Osama bin Laden may be among these al Qaeda troops in this no-man's land that you have so accurately described this morning?

MARGOLIS: I believe that he is -- it's likely that he is being sheltered in the Afghan tribal territory. I call it Dodge City meets the Arabian Knights, this wild area. It's under no man's rule. The Pakistani government only has a few forts scattered around the area. It's an autonomous region, and this would be the most likely place for bin Laden and the rest of the al Qaeda leadership to be hiding, as well as Mullah Omar and the Taliban leadership, who come from the same ethnic region.

ZAHN: So if these guys are there, do you have any hope that the U.S. will eventually get them?

MARGOLIS: I think there is a very good chance that they will, but it could take a while yet.

ZAHN: And how do they do that? Just continuing the kind of actions you think are getting them mired in this quagmire that you have described this morning?

MARGOLIS: The most effective way is through intelligence work, working with the Pakistani ISI Intelligence Service, not through these large militaries of Vietnam-style sweeps.

ZAHN: All right. Eric Margolis, thank you so much for your time this morning -- the author of "War at the Top of the World," a man who has traveled extensively through that region -- thanks again for your time this morning.

MARGOLIS: You are most welcome.

ZAHN: Have a good day.

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