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American Morning

Interview with Sen. Richard Shelby (R), Alabama

Aired May 01, 2002 - 07:08   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now, on to the issue of Homeland Security. The Justice Department says the man who was running a Chicago-based Islamic charity was also running errands and money for Osama bin Laden. The Benevolence International Foundation and its director, Enaam Arnaout, were indicted yesterday on perjury charges. They are accused of lying about ties to bin Laden and of actually funneling money to al Qaeda. And you won't believe what one of the workers is accused of doing.

The arrest comes just a day after news that security at federal buildings in Atlanta flunked a test by undercover agents. Congressman Bob Barr who commissioned the investigation, said the findings were shocking.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. BOB BARR (R), GEORGIA: By applying a few simple tactics and off-the-shelf technology, investigators thwarted the security in such a manner that weapons, explosives, nuclear, chemical or biological agents, listening devices and other life-threatening or hazardous materials could have easily been carried into and left throughout these federal buildings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: And joining us now to talk more about the state of Homeland Security from Washington, Alabama Senator Richard Shelby, vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee -- welcome back, Senator -- good morning.

SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R), ALABAMA: Good morning to you, Paula.

ZAHN: So, Senator Shelby, let me get this straight here. You have these -- what -- undercover agents go in, and they were able to take briefcases in, briefcases that were never checked, and basically pierced the security of four different federal buildings?

SHELBY: Well, I'll tell you, that is frightening, Paula. Obviously that's what has happened, and you have to do this to check how they are doing at the buildings. And I can tell you they have got to do better, not just in Atlanta, where these events took place, but everywhere across the country.

We are still vulnerable. We have a lot of buildings that are vulnerable, and we are going to stay vulnerable if we don't change a lot. We've got to do a lot -- do a big jump in technology, which we're moving in the right direction.

But we live in an open society. We have always been used to that, and we flourish that way. But we've got to stay alert. We cannot, as I have said all along, we cannot panic. We have to go about working every day, going to school every day, going to church.

ZAHN: But if these federal agents can't protect people at federal buildings, then who can?

SHELBY: Well, that's a good question, Paula. You asked the question right. Who can protect us? I think we have to protect ourselves. Nothing will be perfect, but we can cut the possibility of losses, of life by terrorist attacks on our buildings tremendously by technology and also by trained personnel.

I think you're going to have to have in the future a lot more training of the personnel that enforce the strict rules of who comes into the building, who leaves the building, what they are doing there and who is visiting the building.

ZAHN: All right. Let's move on to the issue of the arrest of this executive director of the Islamic charity, Benevolence International Foundation. Now, the government has known about potential ties between this organization and Osama bin Laden for so long. Why did it take so long to get this guy arrested?

SHELBY: Well, a lot of investigations take time, whether it's the local police, the FBI, or so forth, because you are looking for more evidence. You are looking for better leads, because when you make an arrest, you want it to hold up in court later. We have known all along that a lot of the terrorist organizations have used all kinds of fronts to laundry money, charities, honey shops, small businesses, you name it, to keep right below the radar, and they have been very successful. They are very professional at doing this.

So investigations, when you do it right, you are thorough, and perhaps this is one that they have done it right.

ZAHN: How big of a break is this for the government?

SHELBY: I think the government is making its own breaks. They need them, because the terrorists have been so professional, Paula. They have left few trails, and they have left few clues. And when you get a break, you've got to drive a truck through it, and they are going to do it.

ZAHN: And you talk about the issue of few clues. We now know that FBI Director Mueller has admitted that after seven months of investigation, it's not really clear how the hijackers pulled off what they did that horrible day.

I want to put a quote up on the screen that I'd love for you to react to. He has said: "In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper, either here in the U.S. or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere that mentioned any aspect of the September 11 plot. The hijackers had no computers, no laptops, no storage of media of any kind. They used hundreds of different pay phones and cell phones, often with prepaid calling cards that are extremely difficult to trace. And they made sure that all of the money sent to them to fund their attacks was wired in small amounts to avoid detection."

How do we pierce these loopholes?

SHELBY: I think it's going to take a lot harder work than we have been used to, because we are dealing with a different type of enemy, an enemy that is professional, well-trained, dedicated, even as we have seen, willing to give their lives up for their cause. This is a different wrinkle in the investigative abilities of the FBI and others, but we can master it if we get into it deeper and deeper, and I think that's what we are going to do.

I believe we have the right leadership at the FBI right now. They have just got to learn that the strategy, the tactics and everything of the terrorists. It's not like the Mafia of old.

ZAHN: In the meantime, is the administration giving you the information your committee needs to figure out the source of the September 11 attacks?

SHELBY: We hope so. This is -- we are just beginning the joint inquiry, Paula, with the House and Senate Intelligence Committees' investigation. We've got a pretty good group together. They have got a lot of work to do to do it right, and of course, the administration will have to cooperate.

ZAHN: All right. Senator Shelby, as always, good of you to join us.

SHELBY: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: Thanks for your time this morning.

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