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American Morning

'Time' Editor Discusses Saddam Hussein Story

Aired May 06, 2002 - 08:13   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: There's a new report out in today's "Time" magazine with a dramatic look inside the world of Saddam Hussein, how Saddam had become almost invisible, even inside Iraq.

Many believe Iraq has hidden chemical and biological weapons and is working to build a nuclear bomb. And this week's "Time" magazine examines that in detail, Saddam Hussein's regime and whether he has something to hide.

Here this morning to talk more about that as well as the latest developments in the Middle East, "Time" magazine foreign editor Lisa Beyer.

Welcome back. Good to see you.

LISA BEYER, "TIME" MAGAZINE FOREIGN EDITOR: Thanks very much.

ZAHN: So, how close is Saddam Hussein to having developed a nuclear bomb?

BEYER: Well, nobody knows exactly and it's important to remember that after the Gulf War, when the UN inspectors went in, they found something like 40 nuclear installations that Iraq was building that nobody had any idea about. So I think it's probably fair to assume that there's a lot going on in Iraq today that nobody knows about.

The best estimates are that it might take him another three to five years to actually build a nuclear device. There are some experts who have studied what he's been doing, looked at what the defectors have been saying, what suppliers who've been contacted by front companies have been saying and suspect that he actually has all of the components for a nuclear weapon except for sufficient quantities of enriched uranium, which he's apparently trying to buy off the shelf from other countries. It's hard to buy so he's probably working on his own methods of enriching that uranium himself.

ZAHN: So that is the only thing stopping him from having created a nuclear bomb?

BEYER: No one knows absolutely for sure because the inspectors haven't been there since 1988 and, you know, satellite photos only tell you so much and defectors only tell you so much and sometimes they tend to tell you what they think you want to hear. But those are the best assessments. ZAHN: And what's the best way to buy uranium these days? How is he getting it?

BEYER: He's probably looking at countries that have nuclear reactors that aren't very responsible.

ZAHN: And then, of course, there is this issue of where all these Russians scientists have gone who had great access to stockpiles of uranium.

BEYER: Right.

ZAHN: Any suggestion of a Russian connection there?

BEYER: Well, Saddam has long used Russian expertise in his weapons and nuclear program. On the other hand, he's got very good scientists himself. And as I said, before 1988 he was very close to building a nuclear weapon and he still has the scientists who were responsible for that, most of them.

ZAHN: And your report fully indicates that Saddam Hussein believes Iraq will get attacked. So in the meantime he's, what, trying to promote support for the Baath Party?

BEYER: Right. He's...

ZAHN: Trying to increase these stockpiles?

BEYER: Right. One of the things he's done, up until recently he used all of the money that he was able to earn in the oil for weapons -- excuse me, oil for medicine program, oil for food program that the UN allows him to sell a certain amount of oil to basically supply his people, he's...

ZAHN: But it's an interesting trip there...

BEYER: Yes.

ZAHN: ... because a lot of people say that's what he was supposed to use the money for and, in fact, what he's doing is building up his arsenal.

BEYER: Absolutely. He's also doing a certain amount of oil smuggling. He's selling beyond what the UN allows him to sell and earning money from that.

Now, until the recent past, he basically stockpiled all of that money just to pay off his loyalists, people who are very close to him. In recent months we've seen evidence that anticipating that there might be some sort of popular revolt against him, he started to spread the money around. And our reporter, Johanna McGeary, who was in Baghdad and wrote this story, which is our cover story, was able to see evidence of that, that people were starting to live a little bit better. They were able to get access to medicine a little bit more. They're able to find jobs and work. And so things are improving on a sort of a popular level, which is obviously very deliberate. In addition to that, we had defectors saying that Saddam is practicing war exercises. For example, all of a sudden the oil ministry will be told OK, let's pretend we're under attack and all of the top officials will convene in a certain secret place. They'll make efforts to lock down all of their archives.

He's not sitting there with his hands under his legs waiting for us to attack him.

ZAHN: And meanwhile he's buying some time here, right, as the U.S. readies for a possible attack?

BEYER: Right. He's using all the, you know, possible diplomatic weapons he can. He's stirring up, you know, some solidarity by supporting the Palestinians. He's talking with the United Nations as if he might let inspectors in again. He's buying time.

ZAHN: Let's move on to the issue of Jenin and the speculation about what really transpired there. You've had reporters in.

BEYER: Right.

ZAHN: They've had a chance to talk to the human rights folks that have been in there. Is there any evidence of a massacre?

BEYER: Well, a lot of civilians died. We know that there are about 50 bodies that have been dug out and there are about 50 people who are still missing. But there isn't any evidence that we were able to dig up or anybody's been able to dig up of what I would call a massacre, a deliberate killing of civilians. Nobody, the Israelis didn't take people and line them up and shoot them.

It's true that quite a few civilians did die in that battle. It was a very gruesome battle. It was a very fierce battle and in our report -- and I think we're the only ones who have reported this -- we did find a Palestinian Authority official who told us that quite a few of the civilians who died, died not because of Israeli measures, not because of Israeli shooting, but because the houses that they were in collapsed under the force of booby traps that had been set by the Palestinians in anticipation of the Israeli attack.

So, there is evidence that the Israelis misbehaved in the sense that they did force civilians to go ahead of the troops and knock on doors to ensure basically that the doors weren't booby trapped.

ZAHN: Well, right. And then, of course, it would seem that -- I'm not saying anybody should support that measure -- but the fact that some of these houses collapsed because these buildings were booby trapped would suggest that the soldiers really did have a fear of that happening to them.

BEYER: Yes. I mean you're still not supposed to use civilians under the rules of war.

ZAHN: Right. Absolutely.

BEYER: But it was a very nasty battle, which is not to say, again, that the Israelis deliberately massacred civilians.

ZAHN: And then we know, of course, Human Rights Watch is already saying that that would constitute a war crime if these civilians were used to go door to door in advance of the soldiers, right?

BEYER: That's what -- yes. That's their position.

ZAHN: All right, Lisa Beyer, thanks for dropping by.

BEYER: Sure.

ZAHN: Appreciate all your insights.

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