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American Morning

Interview with Bert Sugar, Boxing Historian, and Josie Karp, CNNSI

Aired May 06, 2002 - 09:43   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Call him "Open Mike" Tyson. The heavyweight fighter once again finds himself in the news, this time launching a profanity-laced tirade straight into the face of CNN Sports Illustrated reporter Josie Karp. Here's a sample.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSIE KARP, CNNSI CORRESPONDENT: Can't you be a positive story?

MIKE TYSON, BOXER: No. No way. Can't come across -- that's why I can't -- I won't talk nice to you, and talk about fornicating with you, and letting you (EXPLETIVE DELETED) my (EXPLETIVE DELETED), because if I was eloquent with you, you would still look at me as a scum bag.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: But it is only the latest episode in this ongoing saga. There was, of course, his 1992 rape conviction, assault charges, and accusations, the infamous ear-biting incident against Evander Holyfield, and a melee at a January press conference forced a postponement of the Tyson-Lewis match, and it all -- add it all up, and it makes you wonder, should "Iron Mike" be allowed to fight? Well, here this morning to help answer some of your questions and take your phone calls, boxing historian Bert Sugar and CNN Sports Illustrated reporter, Josie Karp. Good morning.

KARP: Hello, again.

BERT SUGAR, BOXING HISTORIAN: Good morning.

ZAHN: Nice to see you two. So Bert, you are not going to go out to cover the Lennox Lewis-Mike Tyson fight. Why not?

SUGAR: I am not going to be there because, bottom line, boxing is legalized assault. If there weren't rules and regulations, these people would be arrested for doing it in a back ally or behind a bar. Similarly to NASCAR where there are no rules, it's speeding.

Mike Tyson admits to none of the rules and regulations. He bites, he tries to break arms, he hits after the bell. He knocks referees down. If I get a real urge on June 8 to visit the home of Elvis, instead of going to Memphis, I am going to Elvis Grbac's house in Cleveland, Ohio, the quarterback's. I just ain't going.

ZAHN: So you are not surprised at all by this verbal assault?

SUGAR: Oh, no. No. To Mike -- and he is a smart person -- this is part of the act. He has a tabloid character. He actually said -- and I quote -- "it irritates you when I come across as a Neanderthal or a babbling idiot," and so what did he do? He came across as a Neanderthal and a babbling idiot.

ZAHN: And you were on the other side of that. Josie, I am going to let you react to this e-mail from Jim. He writes, "Dennis Rodman was allowed to play ball, OJ Simpson walked. Bill Clinton was allowed to stay president. Let the guy fight."

KARP: I actually agree with the sentiment, "let the guy fight," and I know Bert talked about him not playing within the rules. I don't think anyone has ever spelled out, Mike, if you do this, this, and this, then you can't fight. If somebody did that, and then he broke one of those rules, then I say, OK, ban him. But with all the different sanctioning bodies, that will never happen.

SUGAR: I am not against his right to fight. He has that right.

ZAHN: No.

SUGAR: I have a right not to care either.

ZAHN: But you have (UNINTELLIGIBLE) ruined the sport.

SUGAR: I just have a right not to care either because I am called upon to defend the sport, and I ain't going to defend him, I will tell you that.

ZAHN: We have got Margo on the telephone. Good morning, Margo.

CALLER: Good morning. Unfortunately, I met Mike Tyson at some events in Los Angeles. I found him to be a mental case. Horrifying. I had nightmares after I met this guy. I think he should get into acting and do horror films. He would win Oscars, and he doesn't belong in the ring.

ZAHN: All right, Bert. Mike -- Margo just said that he should be doing horror flicks.

SUGAR: It is conceivable. Or maybe facing Hannibal Lecter in the ring. Mike, for whatever reason, has gone his own path. He knows what he is doing. Yes, he goes out of control sometimes, but he has become probably our Dennis Rodman.

ZAHN: Laughing all the way to the bank.

SUGAR: Well, every time he does what he does to you, to whom so ever, you hear the cash registers go cachink, cachink (ph).

ZAHN: Sure. Barry writes this from Lehigh, Florida this morning: "I think that Mike Tyson is an uncivilized, crude, vulgar animal who belongs in a cage, permanently. This beast should not be allowed to fight, or even roam free in our society."

When Bert talks about his disenchantment with the sport, and all these rules being twisted --

SUGAR: No, disenchantment with Mike Tyson, not with the sport.

ZAHN: Mike Tyson -- I'm sorry. You're absolutely right. What ultimately will be his impact on the sport?

KARP: He is going to have a legacy of having been a great fighter, but it is going to be overshadowed by all of the different things that he did inside the ring that had nothing to do with boxing, the ear biting, the conviction on rape charges.

And there's still a lot more to be said and written about this Mike Tyson story, because eventually he is not going to be able to fight any more, and it is not going to have anything to do with him being banned, and then you wonder, what is this man going to do with himself.

ZAHN: We have got Ernie on the line this morning. Good morning, Ernie.

CALLER: Good morning. Yes, I think Mike Tyson should be allowed to fight. I mean, because he offers -- the economic power that he brings to the fight game. When a Mike Tyson fight comes around, it's like -- there's a fight party. It's like the Super Bowl. Let's -- we are going to have -- it's a party -- yes. Mike Tyson is fighting. Let's check this out. He's like the Tiger Woods of the boxing industry, with a Eminem flavor. He's a bad boy. That's what he is.

ZAHN: You have got Bert rolling his eyes there.

SUGAR: Mike Tyson -- he's our poster boy for boxing right, to listen to this call, and he is about as much the poster boy for boxing as Count Vlad Dracula is for the Red Cross blood drive. He bears no relationship to anything I am listening to here, or to boxing.

ZAHN: Josie?

KARP: But he is the poster boy for boxing. I don't think this is just a guess right now that this gentlemen is saying that, hey, this is how I felt. I think a lot of people associate Mike Tyson with boxing. He is the only face that a lot of people who aren't historians, who don't know a lot about boxing associate it with.

SUGAR: So what you are saying is, if it wasn't for Mike Tyson, all boxing news would be relegated to underneath the shipping news?

KARP: Well, it is certainly much bigger with him in it.

ZAHN: Yes, it would pretty hard to find, I think, buried in the newspaper. We have got Ed on the phone this morning. Good morning.

CALLER: Good morning. Hi, Paula.

ZAHN: Hi.

CALLER: I also want to say hi to Bert, love watching him. I have two things to say about this. Basically, I think Mike can really ruin boxing. Boxing has already taken a hard hit as it is.

There was a fight recently where two boxers had ended a fight. Tenth round, one boxer obviously won, the other had his gloves taken off, and just slammed the other guy, knocked him to the canvas.

Also, I think Mike Tyson needs some mental help.

ZAHN: Well, you were talking about the credibility of the sport, obviously being hurt by Mike Tyson.

SUGAR: And yet, if I hear the next person -- the next person I hear who will say this is another black eye for boxing, and I think boxing ran out of black eyes about 1910, I just think I might hit them.

ZAHN: But he essentially said that.

SUGAR: Yes. But, boxing has enough problems, and it can defend itself, i.e. this press conference -- this could have happened at a Mickey Rourke press conference for a movie. The point being Mike Tyson brings a whole another set of circumstances that really aren't related to boxing. It's been said that Mike Tyson has so many things going on in his mind, demons and whatever, that he could literally get a group discount from the American Psychiatric Association.

KARP: With all of his personalities.

ZAHN: We are going to jump here ahead on the list to an e-mail from Mike who makes this economic argument, once again. He says, "yes, Mike Tyson should be allowed to fight. In America you have the right to earn a living, and just because some people in America don't like Mike doesn't mean he can't fight."

SUGAR: Oh, he has a right to fight. Doesn't he have a right to fight?

KARP: I believe he does -- until he breaks the law and ends up in jail again, and then all of his rights are taken away, and then he can't earn a living, and he can't be a boxer.

SUGAR: There are worse things, i.e., see people want to ban boxing because of Mike, which would be like banning baseball because of Darryl Strawberry. I mean, one rouge player doesn't do it. Mike is his own sewagenarous (ph) problem, but he should be allowed to fight. And look at all the ink he gives us.

KARP: I mean...

SUGAR: We will fell trees writing about this man.

ZAHN: So, Bert is not going to be there, will you be there June 8?

KARP: I absolutely will be there.

ZAHN: You will be there. Well, we will look forward to having you back, and Bert all the years I have known you, I have never seen you without that hat on. Do you ever take that hat off?

SUGAR: No.

ZAHN: No. And he is not going to do it this morning either. Oh, please. I want to see what's under there. All right. We'll get him back. Thank you both for joining us this morning. Thanks for your e-mails, your phone calls. Appreciate your chiming in this morning.

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