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American Morning

Some Students in San Fernando Valley Won't be Donning Caps and Gowns Because They 'Failed to Develop Acceptable Plan for Future'

Aired May 09, 2002 - 08:50   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JACK CAFFERTY, CNN ANCHOR: This time of year, high school seniors all across the country counting the days until graduation. It's often said at the annual pomp-and-circumstance ceremony that graduation is not the end of anything, rather it's the beginning.

This summer, some students in California's San Fernando Valley will not be donning caps and gowns with their classmates because they failed to develop an acceptable plan for their future. There is a new school policy out there that says only student who have committed to postgraduate training in college, trade school or the military, will be allowed to participate in graduation ceremonies. They'll still get the diploma, but they won't participate in the graduation ceremony.

As you might imagine, there is a hew and cry coming from this idea.

Joining us from Los Angeles to talk about it is Harold Kwalwasser, who's general counsel for the Los Angeles unified school district, and from Washington D.C., Nick Gillespie, who's editor in chief of "Reason" magazine.

Gentlemen, welcome. It's nice to you have with us.

Harold, let me begin with you. The minute we began teasing this story we starting getting e-mails saying something to the effect, how dare the schools demand that students lay out some sort of plan for the future in order to be allowed to participate in their graduation if they met all the requirements to, in fact, graduate from high school. It sounds a bit Draconian. Tell me how it works.

HAROLD KWALWASSER, GENERAL COUNSEL, L.A. UNITED SCHOOL DIST.: First of all, it is a great success, and I want to emphasize that in the beginning, because what we tried to do here is encourage think about after school, and that means not just those going college, but those who are going to go on and get a job afterward. We don't want them in dead-end jobs. We don't want them really just falling off the edge of the earth. We want these children to understand there is more out there to life, and you don't have to go to college to get it. You can have a plan for life where you can find advancement through vocational education, through apprenticeships, through the military, and we want them merely e think about these things and plan for them.

CAFFERTY: What about kids... KWALWASSER: Now the thing I think I must take exception to, is it's not clear to me at the end of the day we're going to have anybody that's denied the right to participate in the graduation ceremony. As of May 1st, we had approximately 95 percent of our kids in local district C, the San Fernando Valley, who have in fact completed their plans. We have an expectation that virtually everybody will have completed the plans by graduation time.

CAFFERTY: What about a kid that doesn't know what he wants to do, or what about a kid who doesn't have the money to go to college, who says, hey, I have to work in one of those so-called dead-end jobs in a couple of years to save up some money, and then I'll decide whether I want to go to college or not?

Are there exceptions to this rule? Can a kid still participate if he doesn't fall into one of the three defined category, college, vocational, trade school or the military?

KWALWASSER: Oh, sure. This is not about trying to force kids not to work or to penalize kids if they do work. This is to say to kids who are going to go off to work, well, let's think about your future and how you're going to advance from the entry-level job you get when you finish high school to something better thereafter. Remember, what we're trying to do is to get kids to plan for the future.

CAFFERTY: Fair enough.

KWALWASSER: That's what they have to do. It's merely to participate in thinking about their future, and in raising their expectations, and in having high expectations of them.

CAFFERTY: Nick Gillepsie, let me switch...

KWALWASSER: So once they participate in the plan, that's sufficient.

CAFFERTY: Let's me switch to this to Nick Gillespie. And let me put up some statistics, Nick, that appear this is more than a good idea. These are statistics from the district C that's involved in this program, enrollment at University of California schools up 10 percent overall, an 8 percent increase for white students, for Latino students up 31 percent, for African-American students up 150 percent. The numbers seem to suggest that something's working. What's your reaction?

NICK GILLESPIE, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "REASON: MAGAZINE: You know, well, first off, I want to congratulate the Los Angeles unified school district on creating a new reason for kids to resent high school and administrators. If this planning was such an obvious good idea, then make it a requirement of graduation, but don't let people go through what the state approves and what L.A. approves as necessary to graduate from high school, and then deny them the right to graduate in front of their friends as parent.

"The Los Angeles Times" yesterday reporting the story made it clear many students won't be involved in graduation because of this, and also, you know, that there is a lot of resentment. Whatever the intentions of the plan, it's invidious. It creates two sets of graduates, one who gets to march in front of graduates and pick up their diploma, and the other ones that go on merely to work, which I thought was the great American value.

I think it's intrusive. It inserts the school in a conversation that really most properly takes place between parents and children, in large degree, and I think it's largely ineffective for the reason that counsel was saying, in that anybody can do it. This a piece of paper, and I'm not sure that it's really focusing anybody's attention.

CAFFERTY: What about those criticisms, Mr. Kwalwasser?

KWALWASSER: I think they're wrong up and down the line. Let me start with a few key points. First of all, I don't think that there are going to very many kids not participating in high school graduation ceremonies.

CAFFERTY: But why shouldn't they all be able to participate I guess is the question? If they completed the curriculum for 12 years in the public school system, why is it up to some bureaucrat to come along, and say your plan for the next part of the life isn't satisfactory for me, and therefore, you can't stand up in front of your family and friends and get your diploma?

GILLESPIE: If I may say, it will force them to lie about something. Say, you're the son of an immigrant...

KWALWASSER: I think that's all high speculation that doesn't mirror reality.

GILLESPIE: No, no, well, wait. Let me just say, this is what you're saying, so the son of an immigrant who is going to work in his parent's business after school and not go on for education, what you're saying is, and not going out to the military or vocational training, what you're saying to that person is that we value your hard work and your effort in those kinds of stores less than if you say you're going on to the military. If you want to put people through an exercise...

KWALWASSER: That hypothetical doesn't wash.

CAFFERTY: All right, we'll give you the last word here, but it's got to be brief. We're going lose the satellite. Last word on this, and why those people that Nick is talking about shouldn't feel a bit disenfranchised by a regulation such as this.

KWALWASSER: First of all, those kids will still graduate. The fact that you go on to work in your parents store isn't the issue, so long as you think about how you're going to advance yourself forward after you start working in your parent's store, you satisfied all the requirements here. All we're trying to do is work with these kids to plan their future.

You know, so often, public schools are criticized for not caring about what happens to their kids. Here we have a commitment to care and to help them think through their future. If they work in their parents store but think about their future, they got it made, and they graduate in the ceremony along with everybody else.

CAFFERTY: Good.

GILLESPIE: Jack, if I may add, the real question here really is educational choice, and is matching parents and students to school that have curricula and programs that they want, and until we address that basic issue, and this is one of the reasons why in Los Angeles, where people are very fearful of sending their kids to the schools.

CAFFERTY: All right. Gentlemen, I have got to stop it there. I appreciate your talking with us. We'll follow up on the story and keep track of parental reaction and student reaction out there. Nick Gillespie, from Washington, editor-in-chief of "Reason" magazine, thanks, Nick. Harold Kwalwasser, who's general counsel of the Los Angeles unified district, joining us from California. Thanks for being with us on AMERICAN MORNING.

KWALWASSER: Thank you. Come see one of our graduations from district C.

CAFFERTY: All right, good.

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