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American Morning

Carter Tours Cuba; Interview with Judith Miller

Aired May 14, 2002 - 08:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The big question at this hour, is Cuba developing biological weapons? The U.S. says it is, but the State Department won't release the evidence. Coming right up, we're going to go live to our own Kate Snow in Havana.

President Carter says he was told the U.S. had no credible evidence that Cuba was sharing any bioterrorism information with rogue nations and he made that statement yesterday as he toured a major bio lab with Fidel Castro.

CNN's, as we just said, Kate Snow is in Havana. She joins us now with more on the former president's historic trip and some of the controversy swirling around him -- good morning, Kate.

KATE SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning again, Paula.

We're coming to you from the University of Havana this morning. This is where President Carter later tonight, 6:00 p.m. Eastern time, will be giving a major address to the Cuban people. More about that in a minute.

But you're right, the former president yesterday really taking on the Bush administration from Cuba. Carter making a statement as he toured this biotechnology and genetic engineering center here in Havana, the former president saying that he would address the U.S. allegations of bioterrorism, as he said, with some reluctance because, he said, "These allegations were made maybe not coincidentally just before my visit here." These are the words of President Carter.

Carter said in all of his official State Department briefings which prepared him before he came on this trip, no one ever raised the allegations with him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I asked them specifically on more than one occasion, is there any evidence that Cuba has been involved in sharing any information to any other country on earth that could be used for terrorist purposes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNOW: Now, that runs directly counter to what the Bush administration has said, of course. U.S. Undersecretary of State John Bolton about two weeks ago making the first allegations, accusations that Cuba was developing weapons of bioterrorism.

Yesterday, Secretary of State Colin Powell clarified what the U.S. position is and what they think Cuba is capable of.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLIN POWELL, SECRETARY OF STATE: As Undersecretary Bolton said recently, we do believe that Cuba has a biological offensive research capability. We didn't say it actually had such weapons, but it has the capacity and the capability to conduct such research and this is not a new statement. I think it's a statement that has been made previously.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNOW: Now, the former president and Fidel Castro spent much of the day yesterday touring around, for the most part getting along very well. But we should mention that there was a bit of a debate between the two men over democracy and human rights. Carter at one point yesterday saying it is in the United States very important to have "freedom of expression and freedom of assembly." Those are two freedoms, two rights that many human rights groups here in Cuba say are lacking.

Now, Castro later expressed dismay that there is so much world attention on the human rights situation in Cuba. Mr. Castro saying, "The country is getting closer and closer to the dream of justice, of real freedom, real democracy, real human rights." Those are the words of an impassioned speech last night from Fidel Castro.

Now, Carter says he's going to talk about the differences between the two countries, Paula, later on tonight. As I mentioned, he's giving this big speech at 6:00 from here at the university, in front of university students.

He's actually been mentioning this speech everywhere he goes, seemingly wanting everyone to tune in for this. It'll be in Spanish. It'll be broadcast live on Cuban television and the Cubans have promised not to censor any of it.

I just quickly want to show you where we are because we're in a beautiful location here this morning at the University of Havana. Behind me, two museums, one of archaeology and the other of natural history. And then over there is the library of the university. This is the main central plaza here on campus.

And take a look at this tank right over here. It kind of gives you an indication of how things run here in Cuba. That's a Batista tank, the former government before Castro took over. It was captured by rebels on the side of Castro in 1958 and brought here. It says on the plaque, "As a reminder of their struggles." Now, that sits right over there next to the school of law as we join you from the University of Havana.

Again, later on tonight this is where President Carter will address the nation -- back to you, Paula. ZAHN: And we will be sure to catch your special tonight at 8:00 p.m. live from Havana, where you will give us a lengthier tour of the place and fill us in on what President Castro said to, says to these students.

Thanks, Kate. Appreciate that report.

As we just heard from Kate Snow, former President Carter is at odds with the Bush administration claims that Cuba is exporting, potentially, biological weapons technology. And last week Undersecretary of State John Bolton said, "The United States believes that Cuba has at least a limited offensive biological warfare research and development effort. Cuba has provided dual use biotechnology to other rogue states. We are concerned that such technology could support biological weapons programs in those states."

Does Castro's Cuba pose a threat to the U.S.?

Joining us now from Washington, Judith Miller of the "New York Times," co-author of "Germs: Biological Weapons and America's Secret War."

Good to see you, Judith. Welcome.

JUDITH MILLER, "NEW YORK TIMES": Good morning. Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: All right, you have just heard what President Carter told reporters, that in his briefings for this trip no one from the Bush administration warned him of any of the things we just heard the Undersecretary of State say. What do you make of this disconnect?

MILLER: I think, Paula, what I make of it is that the same debate that went on during the Clinton administration is now continuing in the Bush administration. I was struck by Secretary of State Colin Powell's remarks last night, which also seemed to be backing away from what Mr. Bolton said last week.

I think what you have here is a problem with how to interpret information about what Cuba is doing. Yes, there is a lot of activity that is suspicious. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence. And there are a lot of very unsavory contacts, as the administration regards them, between Cuba and especially Iranians who are involved in biological weapons.

And this kind of information led Mr. Bolton and before him another senior State Department official to say that there is a limited offensive effort. Specifically, the State Department said Cuba was experimenting with anthrax and that, of course, got our attention in the press.

But the debate is over how to interpret this information.

ZAHN: Well, then -- I'm still trying to understand where the administration splits on this because even Donald Rumsfeld, the secretary of defense, last week basically said, when asked a very specific question about this, I have not seen the evidence that led Undersecretary Bolton to make this pronouncement.

They've all seen the same stuff, haven't they?

MILLER: Exactly. But that's what's so difficult about biological weapons. When analysts are looking at nuclear facilities, for example, most of them will agree on what they see. But when you're looking at what could be a biological weapons facility, it's the same kind of facility that could be used to make drugs or vaccine, and, in fact, Cuba is a leader in this area.

But there are and have been troubling indications such as can Alabex's (ph) assertion -- this was the former Soviet scientist who defected here 10 years ago -- and he said that he taught the Cubans and his people taught the Cubans everything that they now know.

So I think this debate is going to go on for some time. Cuba signed the biological weapons treaty in 1972. So it's very important that eventually the administration present some more evidence than they have to date.

ZAHN: So help me understand the confusion about how to interpret this. Is the bottom line when you're manufacturing legitimate vaccines that in many ways in the beginning process it looks very similar to the techniques you would use to develop biological weapons?

MILLER: Yes. Exactly.

ZAHN: That's this whole dual use conundrum?

MILLER: Exactly. And the problem, Paula, also is that they could take Mr. Carter to one part of a facility and say look around. Do you see any weapons activity? And in another part of the same facility, there could be secret research ongoing. So unless you're actually inside the facility, there's almost no way to know. And that's why this debate has been so fierce within this administration and the previous administration, as well.

ZAHN: Do you have reason to believe that President Carter got duped yesterday?

MILLER: Well, I think that really how you see this issue depends on what you would like to see. I mean I think that there are many individuals who would like to see a loosening of the four decade old embargo against Cuba. And I think that President -- former President Carter may be in that camp.

But I think that he is also very concerned that just before a trip like this, why wouldn't the administration present such evidence to him if, in fact, they had it? And I think he's annoyed that he wasn't told about these allegations before his own trip.

ZAHN: A final question for you. You mentioned the Soviet defector Alabex, who you mentioned actually trained some of those researchers in Cuba.

MILLER: Yes. ZAHN: What exactly do we know about their biological weapons capabilities?

MILLER: I think what we know is that the capability is enormously impressive. That is, the Cubans are real leaders in biotechnology. They can make recombinant drugs and vaccines, that is, drugs and vaccines that have been genetically altered. And what that means is if they chose to make biological weapons, they could certainly do so. The debate now is over their intention, whether or not they have, in fact, decided to have this kind of program. And that's where you get really intelligent people disagreeing.

But the contacts between Cuba and especially Iran are of enormous concern to this administration and even to some very skeptical people in the previous administration.

ZAHN: And just to close this off, we should point out that the undersecretary at one point noted that President Castro, while at Tehran University, said that Iran and Cuba together could "bring America to its knees."

Judith Miller, thanks so much for your time this morning, a reporter with the "New York Times."

MILLER: Thank you.

ZAHN: Also co-author of the book "Genes, Biological Weapons and America's Secret War."

MILLER: Thank you.

ZAHN: We look forward to seeing your future reports down the road.

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