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American Morning

Sen. Grassley Discusses Pre-9/11 FBI Intelligence

Aired May 30, 2002 - 08:09   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: As we close the book this morning on the cleanup of ground zero, there is new word from the FBI that still more intelligence clues may have been missed before 9/11, including a 1998 memo that raised questions about pilot training.

Meanwhile, the Bureau has announced a major overhaul making counterterrorism its new top priority.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT MUELLER, FBI DIRECTOR: We have to do a better job at collaborating with others and, as critically important, we have to do a better job managing, analyzing and sharing information. In essence, we need a different approach that puts prevention above all else. And simply put, we need to change, and we, indeed, are changing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: But is it enough to fix what's wrong with the FBI?

Sen. Chuck Grassley, a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, has been a vocal critic of the FBI. And he joins us now from Esterville, Iowa.

Good to have you with us this morning.

You're back in your home district doing some business?

SEN. CHARLES GRASSLEY (R-IA), JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: Yes, I sure am.

ZAHN: All right...

GRASSLEY: I'm doing what representative government ought to do, us congressmen, having dialogue with our constituents.

ZAHN: Good for you.

Let's come back to the issue of the FBI. I know in the past you've said some pretty tough things about the FBI, among other things, saying whether it is a bungled software program or obstinate bureaucrats, the FBI needs to get its act together.

Does this new plan go far enough? GRASSLEY: It surely is a step in the right direction. A couple of things yesterday that Mr. Mueller said are very significant. Number one, pointing out and giving some praise to Ms. Rowley, the whistle-blower from Minneapolis, as she condemned central FBI headquarters. Most of the time they don't even want to admit that a critic exists.

Secondly, the fact that he would say that we've got to change the culture of the FBI.

Those are two significant steps.

Now, everything he put in place, I hope that it brings about what it's supposed to. The most important thing is that we move towards prevention of crime and terrorist activities, as opposed to what the FBI has done well over the last eight decades, solving crime.

ZAHN: Let's come back to the issue, though, of changing the culture of the FBI. There are many people out there this morning that are saying that that's not even a realistic near-term goal. What do you think? I mean how do you go about doing that?

GRASSLEY: Well, first of all, you've got to realize that the FBI is in the front line of the domestic war on terrorism. If they can't do it, then we don't have any organization that can do it.

So I think changing the nature is basically, as I indicated, prevention over crime solving. They've been geared towards solving bank robberies, investigation, arrests, prosecution, doing a very good job of it. But this is not a Bonnie and Clyde operation that we're involved in against bin Laden, al Qaeda, and terrorists.

They're declared war on all Americans and all of America. And it's a whole new approach that we need, and changing that culture is basically doing what they can to prevent crime, as opposed to waiting till a crime happens and then solving that.

ZAHN: I know in the past you have said that the people who have been responsible for the mistakes should be held accountable. It was quite clear yesterday from the news conference that the attorney general and the Bush administration is standing by the head of the FBI. What heads do you think should roll as a result of what appear to be very clear signals that were never connected that might have predicted September 11?

GRASSLEY: OK, yes, well, too often in government people that make mistakes and cover-ups get promotions. We had that in the Immigration Service, the whistle-blower I just protected as an example. In this particular case, those people who covered up and didn't cooperate fully with Minneapolis as per the Ms. Rowley whistle- blower letter, they should obviously be disciplined, demoted, fired.

But heads have to roll in a bureaucracy in order for a message to get through. And understand, none of this is pointed towards Mr. Mueller because he didn't take his office until one week before September the 11th. This is geared towards hoping that Mr. Mueller puts in place around him an entire team of people that are committed, as he is committed, to bringing about a new culture in the FBI, because if you hold any of the old people in place, you know, there's going to be the usual resistance to change and the maintenance of the status quo.

ZAHN: Let's come back to the statement you just made about maybe heads should roll, folks should be demoted or fired altogether. Do you have any faith that the head of the FBI or whoever takes, you know, this kind of action will do just that? Do you think those folks who either covered up these signals or didn't appropriately pass it on to their superiors will end up getting hurt by this?

GRASSLEY: Well, I think that was pointed out in Ms. Rowley's letter better than anything I can say, and I want to make sure she's adequately protected so she isn't hurt professionally or economically. But beyond that, I think that Mr. Mueller has got to make up his mind that is he going to bring about change and that change is going to have to bring, be the proper discipline. And we've seen people in the lower levels of the FBI punished, and people in the higher ranks that knew about it were promoted. And those things have come out in hearings before our committee.

So we aren't talking about something new. We're talking about the way government generally, not just the FBI, does things too readily.

ZAHN: Senator, on May 15, you released some copies of some letters you've sent, one to the head of the FBI. The second one was addressed to the Honorable Glen Fein, who was the inspector general for the Department of Justice.

Did you expect the kind of backlash you got from releasing those letters publicly?

GRASSLEY: Well, there's, what we're asking for is an investigation by the inspector general of how come the Phoenix memo -- that's yet another situation from the Minneapolis investigation -- why the Phoenix memo did not get more attention in Washington, D.C., and was there any connection between that and the Minneapolis investigation?

The fact that these memos come in from very good field people that are doing what the FBI does right, a scientific investigation, and then they're ignored at headquarters, we can't allow that to happen. So no, there has not been any backlash. It may be evidence that I'm a critic of the FBI. What I'm trying to do is help the FBI do what it does so well, and that is be the premier law enforcement agency of the United States government.

ZAHN: Sen. Grassley, thanks for your time. Enjoy your constituents while you're at home.

GRASSLEY: Thank you.

ZAHN: And again, appreciate your spending a little bit of time with us here this morning on AMERICAN MORNING. GRASSLEY: Thank you, Paula.

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