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American Morning

Interview with Attorney General John Ashcroft

Aired May 31, 2002 - 07:09   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Attorney General John Ashcroft is making some big changes over at the FBI and turning it loose on terrorists. And yesterday, he announced some broad new guidelines for domestic surveillance, easing restrictions that he says had given terrorists a competitive advantage.

And just a few minutes ago, I spoke with the attorney general about the FBI's new power and the critics who say it amounts to a war on freedom.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN (on camera): Hello, John Ashcroft -- good to see you again -- welcome to AMERICAN MORNING.

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: Great to be with you.

ZAHN: I wanted to start off this morning by talking about some of the things you say agents will now be able to do under this restructuring that they couldn't do before, like surf on the Net like an average American citizen would, even if they just have a hunch about a potential suspect.

What assurance could you give Americans this morning, for example, that if they are online in a chat room and they show some sort of opposition to the war on terrorism, that they won't be targeted by FBI agents?

ASHCROFT: Well, first of all, we really believe that the FBI should be able to do things that are necessary to prevent terrorism, and to be able to go and listen or understand what's happening on the Net. For instance, to visit a Web site that tells people how to make bombs and to see what it is. That's something that I think the FBI ought to do. There are a replete set of rules and the regulations and even statutory enactments that prevent abuses, whether they be keeping records about private citizens, about things not related to terrorism or criminal behavior that are in place and are unchanged by this.

So what we have done is to try and authorize FBI agents to do the kinds of things that local police can do in their community policing efforts, that highway patrolmen or county sheriffs could do to be aware of the circumstances, because being aware of things helps us prevent crime. And our thrust, the reforms at the FBI this week -- and it is a historic week of reforms -- these reforms are designed to be prevention in nature rather than the old style of waiting for something to happen, waiting for a crime to take place, and then trying to solve the crime.

ZAHN: There are a lot of Americans out there who are saying this morning, it is one thing to relax restrictions on the Internet; it's another thing to allow these agents complete access to places of worship. For example, now that agents can enter mosques and places of worship, will they be able to wiretap from there?

ASHCROFT: Well, obviously this doesn't allow anybody to go to any specific place. It just says wherever the public is invited, the FBI can go on the same terms as the public. It certainly doesn't allow for a new set of laws or rules or procedures about wiretapping or listening or surveilling electronically. Those kinds of things are the subject of regulation usually done -- I mean, done with court supervision. There are no changes in the law there. We have simply put the FBI on the same footing a number of law enforcement agencies are on. If there is a rally by a hate group on the public or town square, the FBI in the area can walk over and listen to what's being said.

ZAHN: You no doubt know that there are groups this morning that are charging that you have crossed the line with these new policies. Here is what Laura Murphy had to say from the ACLU about concerns about infringement on personal rights -- let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAURA MURPHY, ACLU: People who go to places of worship, people who go to libraries, people who are in chat rooms are going to have Big Brother listening in even though there is no evidence that they are involved in anything illegal whatsoever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So, sir, you are saying that the situations she has just described will not happen with these reforms?

ASHCROFT: Well, the reforms that we have put in place specifically authorize the additional activity for counterterrorism purposes, to prevent terrorism. It puts the FBI on the same standing that the local sheriff or the local police officer.

You know, when we have worked successfully against crime, part of it has been giving local police the ability to be out in the community on the street to be aware of what's going on to be able to step in to prevent crime. The presence of the police sometimes actually is just preventing crime from taking place. What we are doing is recognizing the need for our FBI to have some of the same capacities as our local police officers have had historically.

ZAHN: So when you hear people like Laura Murphy -- rather Americans out there saying they are very concerned about big brother watching them all the time, they have -- you are saying they have a false notion of how this is all going to play out? ASHCROFT: You know, I think that stems from the fact that there were abuses 25 and 30 years ago. And I would just say that to respond to those abuses of the FBI, both laws have been passed and regulations put in place that forbid certain kinds of record keeping and certain -- a number of those abuses. Those prohibitions against abuse are not only respected in the new guidelines, they are reinforced in the new guidelines.

This is a design to help us prevent terrorism. It does not carry the FBI beyond the capacity that already exists for many other institutions in the culture. I mean, a 14-year-old can surf the Web and find out all of the information that's at public Web sites. Why shouldn't an FBI agent be able to look for anthrax Web sites or bomb making Web sites on the Internet? I believe that the FBI should have that capacity to thwart and prevent terrorism, not to wait for something to happen and then try and figure out what happened.

ZAHN: These changes that you just announced do not require congressional approval, and there are folks out there who are saying that you are just trying to pull the wool over the eyes of the American public with this one. Let's hear what Representative John Conyers had to say who is a member of the Judiciary Committee.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN CONYERS (D), MICHIGAN, JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: We can't be naive. You don't lower the standards to a point of extinction and say everything is OK. Trust me. We are just doing what citizens do. Of course, that's a little bit insulting to our intelligence. The consistent policy of Attorney General Ashcroft is to suggest that there must be a surrender, a compromise of our constitutional liberties, because we are fighting terrorism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: So your response to that? We've got about -- do it in about 20 seconds -- satellite.

ASHCROFT: Well, first of all, these are well within all of the guidelines and safeguards of the Constitution. It's completely respected. The safeguards and the statute are completely respected. The rights of the citizens are. This is a design to help us prevent terrorism, to give FBI agents the kind of access to the culture that has always been enjoyed by local police, county sheriffs, and the kind of access to the Internet that every 12 or 14-year-old who surfs the Net already has.

ZAHN: Attorney General John Ashcroft, good of you to join us on AMERICAN MORNING. Thank you so much for your time. We appreciate it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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