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American Morning
Sound Off: CIA, FBI Pointing Fingers Over Intel Breakdown
Aired June 04, 2002 - 07:21 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: At a time when the CIA and the FBI are supposed to be heralding a new era of cooperation, the two agencies are instead pointing both barrels at each other. Members of today's joint congressional hearing are promising to get to the bottom of the intelligence failures. But once the dust has settled, will the FBI and the CIA ever be able to work together effectively?
Joining me now for today's "Sound Off," from Washington, Democratic Strategist Bob Beckel, and former RNC Communications Director, Cliff May -- good morning, gentlemen.
BOB BECKEL, DEMOCRATIC POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Good morning, Paula.
CLIFF MAY, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Good morning.
ZAHN: Now, I know both of you would be loathed to play a blame game here, but Bob Beckel, based on what we have learned so far about the CIA and the FBI and what they knew before 9/11, what are we looking at here?
BECKEL: Well, what you're looking at is a classic cover up. I mean, look, the fact is that after 9/11 the information these people were presented with they knew they were presented with. They had to turn to themselves and say, "You know, I had a piece of that information." Now they didn't put it together.
The fact of the matter is, though, they knew about it. And they decided not to tell anybody about it. I will grant you they were going into a war. But it's one thing to go into a war and protect sources and information. It's entirely another thing to, like Vice President Cheney said, to call it un-American to look into these things.
I mean, if somebody had looked into this before, perhaps this would not have happened. But this is not new. I mean, there have been failures in the intelligence community going back decades now. And all of a sudden we're saying, well because of 9/11 -- what's our answer? Not fix it, give them more powers.
You're talking to somebody who was followed by the FBI in anti- war days. The idea the FBI has more power to investigate people is about the most obscene idea I can imagine. A tough letter to follow. MAY: Paula, look, on one thing Bob is right, and that is that the system has been broken for years. We've refused absolutely to recognize it.
We started tying the hands of the CIA and the FBI back in the 1970s, with the Church committee in Congress. And we just made the knots tighter and tighter and tighter. What we've found out in recent days is absolutely shocking. We have one of the suspects in the hijacking arrested and the judge said, no, you can't even look in his computer. You don't have enough evidence.
We have the CIA knowing of terrorists coming into this country. They didn't stop them from coming in. Or, better still, when they got here, follow them, listen to them, find out who they're dealing with and what they're up to. We have to fix the problem, and that means we have to untie the hands of the CIA and the FBI.
Sure, find blame where blame is due, but also fix the system, which has been broken for years.
ZAHN: All right. But, Cliff, come back to your point. Where is the blame due based on what we've learned about the CIA being able to effectively track these guys for the last year and a half, and the confirmation yesterday from the information -- or the confirmation that the FBI was told of the identity of two of these potential terrorists?
MAY: Part of it is completely systemic and is in the rules that the FBI and the CIA have been given. CIA agents overseas were not allowed, were not allowed to penetrate mosques where they knew Islamic militants were recruiting terrorists. They couldn't do it. Robert Baer wrote a book about that; he's a former CIA agent.
We also, to this day, refuse to recognize that most Islamic terrorists are going to be Islamic and they're going to be from countries that harbor resentments against us. And so at the airport they refuse -- and our administration, our transportation department, refused to say that a guy from Syria or from Saudi Arabia or from Iran should be given more scrutiny than some grandmother from Dubuque.
The fact of the matter is al Qaeda is not an equal opportunity employer. We have to get over the political correctness that Bob is in favor of. We have to get over the fear of the FBI and the CIA and let them have the power to do their job without bringing them in front of some committee all the time.
ZAHN: All right. But, Bob, let's come back to you for a moment. You're not suggesting that you don't want the FBI to have the ability to have any of its agents go into a mosque and observe the activities of potential terrorists out there, are you?
BECKEL: They have had the authority to do that for a long time. Cliff calls it "systemic problems," I call it incompetence. Why do we keep saying because something goes wrong, the FBI just (UNINTELLIGIBLE) an organization that we've all prided ourselves on, has been time after time -- has proved itself to be incompetent in many areas?
Now, he talks about equal opportunity. Look, I was in and out of airports, right? I'm not Muslim. I had my shoes on and off more times than Imelda Marcos.
Now, what in the world did that do to make that plane any safer? They could have done that before; they didn't do it. The fact of the matter is, you can talk about systems, but you can also talk about gross and absolute incompetence, and that's what took place. And we ought to bring that out to bear, as well as the system.
ZAHN: Cliff, you get the last word this morning.
MAY: Yeah. Again, we were not investigating Islamic charities that we had reason to suspect were sending money to terrorist organizations.
BECKEL: Why?
MAY: We were not -- because of political correctness and because of rules that were promulgated, starting with the church (ph) committee and then Congress put on the CIA and the FBI, telling them, don't you dare -- are you in favor or are you against, Bob, the idea of profiling people in airports based on country of origin? Not race, country of origin. If they're from hostile countries, we should look at them with special scrutiny. Yes or no?
BECKEL: Absolutely not. Absolutely not.
MAY: Why not?
BECKEL: I'm for profiling right-wingers in certain parts of the United States, but I'm not...
MAY: That's the problem. Bob thinks Republicans are dangerous, but people from Saudi...
BECKEL: Look, the idea that this country is founded on certain unalienable rights, and when you start tramping on them because you can't do your job right, that's a mistake.
MAY: If I know that in your neighborhood there's a rapist going around and he's about six foot tall and a little heavy and he wears black jackets, you know what's going -- we shouldn't then stop Hispanics or blacks or Arab men. We should stop people who look like you. That's a profile; that's a clue. When you ignore clues out of political correctness, you're going to have the kinds of problems we have had in the recent past.
ZAHN: Hey, Bob, do you get the drift? Cliff thinks it's all your fault.
BECKEL: Yeah, you know the drift...
ZAHN: It's all your fault, it looks like.
BECKEL: That's right, and I take responsibility. So arrest me right now, and I apologize, you know? You know, I mean, profile me.
How many profiles of people like me are there? What are you going to do, are you going to go into every gin mill in America and pick up every guy that weighs over 200 pounds and say, "OK, you're a rapist." I mean, that's the whole point you're making here, Cliff.
MAY: Of all the gin mills in the world, he has to come into mine.
BECKEL: The idea is, Cliff, that we have certain rights in this country, and I go back to my point: we cannot and should not step on the Constitution of the United States or accuse people of being un- American because the intelligence community has not done its job. Not because it was hamstrung, because in many cases it was incompetence.
(CROSS TALK)
BECKEL: Will you guys finally take responsibility yourselves? Bush -- this is Bush's watch, man.
ZAHN: All right. Unfortunately, we've got to leave it there on this note. We'll have to bring you back later this week.
Bob Beckel, Cliff May, as always, good to hear both of your perspectives. Take care.
MAY: Thank you, Paula.
BECKEL: Thank you, Paula.
ZAHN: And, Bob, get your voice back.
BECKEL: I will.
ZAHN: I don't know what happened to your voice. He sounds a little hoarse this morning. It's all the traveling he's been doing lately.
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