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American Morning

Interview with Brian Jenkins

Aired June 12, 2002 - 08:11   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Nine months after September 11, key details continue to emerge about the attacks, as well as some new questions. Did the hijackers plan a much broader attack? Were there other hijackers involved in other intended targets?

Well, in a new book author Rohan Gunaratna, who was with us yesterday, said yes to both and also suggests that September 11 was not the original date planned for the attack.

Joining us to discuss these claims and their validity is terrorism expert Brian Jenkins. Welcome back, Brian. Good to see you.

BRIAN JENKINS, RAND CORPORATION: Thank you. Good morning.

ZAHN: Good morning. So does this September 9 scenario make any sense to you at all?

JENKINS: I'm not sure. You know, the book is not yet available here in the United States, and I'm certainly going to be anxious to read it when it is available to see on what basis that conclusion is reached.

That does stretch our imagination a bit. I suspect that, for operational reasons, there was probably a window of time, because to carry out these attacks simultaneously in the United States required good weather in Washington, New York and Boston, so they had to have some flexibility.

But why on September 9? It is a Sunday. The World Trade Center would have been empty, and the Pentagon would also have been partially empty.

ZAHN: Yes, I mean, that didn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but the Dr. Gunaratna suggested that the attacks were originally planned to coincide with the slaughter of the Northern Alliance leader, Massoud, and for some reason the U.S. attack team was called to postpone the attack. How will we ever be able to verify any of these claims in this book?

JENKINS: I don't know that we'll be able to know the full story before many, many years. Certainly, a number of people who were allegedly involved in the original planning of this have now been identified. I mean, apart from those who killed themselves in the attack on September 11, other planners have been identified and, indeed, we do have some people who are in custody who may be able to provide some additional details. I suspect that ultimately we will learn more about the case, but that may take a long time.

ZAHN: Among the other charges of Dr. Gunaratna is the plan or, he says, the allegation that there was a much broader plan targeted and it essentially meant not only to include the targets in the United States, but targets in Britain, as well. I want to quickly review a little bit of what he had to say here yesterday on AMERICAN MORNING.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ROHAN GUNARATNA: They sent a team of suicide pilots to Heathrow with the intention of simultaneously crash diving the aircraft onto the Houses of Parliament in Westminster.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Have you ever heard that scenario discussed by U.S. intelligence officials?

JENKINS: No, I haven't. We know from some material that was obtained in Afghanistan that the terrorists and Al Qaeda have contemplated carrying out attacks in England against important political and symbolic targets like the Houses of Parliament, so it is not -- it's not far-fetched. I've always personally believed that probably some of the earlier plans of the September 11 attacks did involve a more ambitious operation, whether that was five planes, six planes, whether they were all supposed to be in the United States or elsewhere in the world, I don't know, but certainly given the -- some of the history of this, one would not be surprised by ultimately discovering there were more ambitious plans.

ZAHN: I guess the other thing that surprised me was that Dr. Gunaratna suggested the reason why the attacks on Great Britain weren't carried out was that by the time the hijackers were trying to get on the planes at Heathrow, all air traffic was grounded because of the attacks in the United States. Now, isn't that something that these would-be hijackers would have anticipated?

JENKINS: This was certainly a well-planned operation, and I think that the people who did the planning would have to anticipate that, following the first attacks in the United States, that certainly, if all of the airplanes were not grounded at the very least, that security would have been increased worldwide to extraordinary levels, making it extremely difficult to carry out any further attacks.

ZAHN: And in closing, we're beginning to learn more about this man who allegedly was going to be involved in a "dirty bomb" explosion in Chicago. How many more Jose Padillas are walking around out there, or Abdullah Al Muhajir, as he was known?

JENKINS: I suppose there may be others. You know, a terrorist enterprise attacks the -- attracts the dust of the universe, the converts as well as the convicts. We don't know a great deal about the biography of Mr. Padilla yet, but the trajectory into terrorism is certainly a familiar one. Young men in prison often find their way into extremist organizations. We've seen it a number of times in this country.

Keep in mind that a number of years ago we had a small terrorist group that was led by Donald DeFreeze, who renamed himself Field Marshal Cinque, and led this terrorist organization out here. He himself was an ex-con. So, it's not an unusual thing. I don't think that there are Osama bin Laden recruiting offices in the prisons, but certainly there are ways in which individuals are attracted into some of the more extremist cults and criminal brotherhoods. Not uncommon at all.

ZAHN: Well, as always it's good to cover so much territory with you. Brian Jenkins, always appreciate your perspective and your time.

JENKINS: Thank you.

ZAHN: Take care.

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