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American Morning

Interview with Charli Coon, Alyssondra Campaigne

Aired June 14, 2002 - 07:19   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, some believe there is a cloud hanging over the president's commitment to clean air. Yesterday, the EPA proposed relaxing air pollution rules to help make it easier for utilities to upgrade and expand their coal-burning power plants.

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CHRISTINE TODD WHITMAN, EPA ADMINISTRATOR: These reforms are about making the Clean Air Act work effectively, to be efficient and effective.

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HEMMER: That was the word from the administration that many environmentalists and some Democrats disagree on that point.

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SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D), MAJORITY LEADER: Once again, today, the polluters are going to win. This administration is fast becoming the most environmentally unfriendly administration in 20 years. And I am very, very saddened by the news again today that, once again, clean air takes a back seat to the polluters.

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HEMMER: So the lines have been drawn in Washington. The White House pollution reform is rolling back years of what some say is environmental protection, or are they an improvement?

Let's debate the issue this morning. Charli Coon of the Heritage Foundation with us in Washington -- good morning to you. And Alyssondra Campaigne with the National Resources Defense Council with us as well -- good morning to both of you.

Charli, you know the environmentalists, they jumped on this right way essentially yesterday, saying it's just going to lead to more pollution. How does the White House defend itself against those charges?

CHARLI COON, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Well, this is just simply a common sense reform measure. It has been in the works for 10 years. It is going to make the Clean Air Act, particularly the New Source Review Program, more understandable, more flexible, and allow the companies and factories and utilities to proceed with energy efficiency project and pollution prevention projects, which have been impeded under the complicated and convoluted laws and program of the NSR.

HEMMER: Alyssondra, are common sense measures taken?

ALYSSONDRA CAMPAIGNE, NATIONAL RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNCIL: The only thing convoluted here is the decision that has been made. I mean, this is the biggest blow to the Clean Air Act in three decades. It fundamentally -- the Bush administration is fundamentally rewriting the rules of the Clean Air Act to allow industry to pollute and to invade the most basic requirement of the law that companies install modern pollution control devices.

The decision means more smog. It means more acid rain. It means more deaths from respiratory illnesses, and it means more global warming pollution.

HEMMER: Let's step this up just a little bit. The White House, and you know the position for some time, they have tried to balance the business industry and protect jobs, while at the same time, Alyssondra, at the same time trying to also afford the environment some protection is a thin line to ride here. But clearly, the White House has staked its position, and if you are going to cost jobs out there in different parts of the country, perhaps you can save a few along the way.

CAMPAIGNE: The jobs line is completely spurious. I mean, if we wanted to believe those arguments, we would have believed industry when it said that seat belts were going to throw the auto industry out of business, that air bags were going to devastate them.

What this is about is fundamental protections for the American public, and the law was clear, and it's simple. If you make a major investment, and you are going to increase emissions and increase the pollution that threatens public health, you need to install modern pollution control devices. If you are undertaking a more basic or routine kind of behavior that doesn't have those effects, the rules didn't even apply.

What happened here is that industry basically came in and got the administration to rewrite the rules of the law to explicitly benefit them in a way that engenders extreme danger for the American public.

HEMMER: What about that, Charli? Is business really having more of a heavy-hand in the White House that truly administers this policy?

COON: Well, these reforms have been under way for about 10 years. As I said, the Clean Air Act is actually even more complicated, if you can believe it, than the federal tax code, and what these reforms are going to do is make it -- clarify what the Act intends. It clarifies what this Act does, and the rules and the regulations will be simpler. It will allow flexibility for businesses to improve their facilities, to proceed with prevention -- pollution prevention projects and energy efficiency... HEMMER: Charli are we...

COON: ... and to study the...

HEMMER: Yes. Are we going to get years down the road here and regret these moves?

COON: Certainly not. I mean, right now, we have seen -- since 1970, the last 30 years, we have seen that air pollution has decreased, emissions have decreased about 30 percent. In the meantime, we have also increased our gross domestic product by 147 percent. So the president is absolutely right. We can have economic reforms and economic growth and a clean environment.

HEMMER: Alyssondra, some have charged that this White House is simply trying to pull back the reins of the previous administration, alleging that they went simply too far with a number of measures, especially taken toward the end of the second term of Bill Clinton. In effect, in American democracy, perhaps there is some sort of balancing act that right now is under way. How do you respond to that?

CAMPAIGNE: What this administration is doing is extremely alarming to us. Basically, what we are seeing is a systematic dismantling of 30 years of bipartisan progress on the environment. We are seeing rule changes that are going at the heart of our most basic protections for air, land and water.

Very recently, the president announced a decision that allows companies to blow off the tops of mountains, dump it into our lake, streams and rivers, bury them, obliterate them, without even having to get a permit. These kinds of reforms are done explicitly to benefit those polluting industries who gave major campaign contributions.

HEMMER: Alyssondra, I listen to your comments, and I almost feel like you are trying to tell the American people that this White House is out to hurt you.

CAMPAIGNE: I think it's really important that the American people understand that there is a very serious assault on the environment under way, and that the kinds of rule changes that were announced yesterday have grave impacts for public health and for the environment. And it's important that they know that.

HEMMER: You want to get the last word. I know you are shaking your head, Charli -- go ahead.

COON: Well, this administration breathes air and drinks water. Certainly it is not going to want to leave a legacy of bad environmental policies. What this administration is doing with the New Source Review Program is a common sense reform, clarifying the Act and providing flexibility for businesses, so they can proceed with energy efficiency projects and prevention pollution projects.

HEMMER: The debate shall continue. Charli, thanks -- Charli Coon from the Heritage Foundation. Alyssondra, thanks to you as well -- Alyssondra Campaigne of the National Resources Defense Council. This issue shall not go away. We'll talk again.

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