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American Morning
Man Whose Case Ruled Out Pledge of Allegiance Speaks
Aired June 28, 2002 - 09:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: I want to get "Up Front" this hour now. And it may be a long time, if ever, before kids have to stop saying the Pledge of Allegiance. A judge on the court that ruled the pledge unconstitutional has stayed that ruling until the appeals process is over. The government says it will ask the entire 9th Circuit Court of Appeals to hear the case, not just the three-judge panel that made that ruling.
Michael Newdow, who took the case to court, the plaintiff, joins us now, from Sacramento, with more reaction on what we learned yesterday.
Michael, good morning to you.
MICHAEL NEWDOW: Good morning.
HEMMER: We talked yesterday. Again, the subject is again here today. Your reaction to, essentially, the appeal from the judge who wrote the decision to say hang on for a moment.
NEWDOW: Yes. It's not my legal expertise, so I'm getting my feel as I go through this. I'm not a ...
HEMMER: Did it surprise you, Michael? Or what was your reaction?
NEWDOW: Yes. From what I understand, it really doesn't have much of an effect. The ruling didn't take effect, anyhow, by law, I think, for 45 days, so he just, essentially, said that he's getting the rest of the panel a chance to determine whether it wants to ...
HEMMER: Does it portend anything toward you in terms of this decision lives or not?
NEWDOW: I don't think so. I think I'm -- I think it was going to go to an en banc review no matter what, so I think I'm in the same situation I would have been in before.
HEMMER: Did you think it would go en banc in the 9th Circuit before the Supreme Court?
NEWDOW: I did. I would prefer going to the Supreme Court. I think I'm going to win in the Supreme Court. I don't know what's going to happen in en banc review. HEMMER: How about the reaction that we have picked up all over the country? I mean, in certain circles, as you well know, there's been absolute outrage. Your reaction to that, Michael?
NEWDOW: I think it's from people who either don't understand the Bill of Rights and the First Amendment or from people, like politicians, who want to gather votes and recognize that 93 percent of the population believes in God and wants to have God in their government.
HEMMER: This surprise you, though? I mean, literally, everybody talking about this thing.
NEWDOW: Yes. I expected it was going to be huge. I didn't expect it would be this huge.
HEMMER: Want to play something has been released to reporters. It comes from messages on your answering machine. Let's listen to that right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to sit and think about what you're doing. It's completely out of whack.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anti-American liberal atheist. What a bunch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael, what in the hell is wrong with you? You dumb son of a (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I'd say you're a dead man walking, man. Somebody's going to kill you. Not me, but somebody will. I said you're treading on thin ice, pal. You better change your (EXPLETIVE DELETED) view.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HEMMER: Michael, did you know everyone who contacted you with their message?
NEWDOW: Did I -- say that again, please.
HEMMER: Did you know everyone who contacted you, or were you hearing from strangers?
NEWDOW: No, these were all strangers. I put up a phone with my name and actually intended to see what people would say. It's actually surprising. I didn't get a chance to listen to them until just last night, most of the messages. These were -- I let the reporters listen to them, and...
HEMMER: What did you hear?
NEWDOW: And it's -- I was astounded by how many people actually supported me. I thought it was all going to be this sort of stuff, and there's worse than this that you didn't play. So I was, actually, pleasantly surprised. I expected this kind of stuff. HEMMER: A lot of people have said the timing for this has been down right-off awful for your case. There are troops overseas. In fact, your own governor, Gray Davis, made mention of it yesterday. When the governor of your own state comes out so much against this ruling, do you have any sense that you'll stand a level of success at any level if you continue this case?
NEWDOW: You know, Justice Jackson, in one of the biggest cases relative to this -- is West Virginia v. Barnette -- was a 1943 case -- and he wrote, The Bill of Rights -- he expressed what the purpose of the Bill of Rights was and the very purpose of the Bill of Rights, he wrote, was to avoid the vicissitudes of political controversy and to place these decisions beyond the reach of majorities and officials. And I think that the judiciary will, hopefully, apply the principles that it's supposed to apply.
HEMMER: Quickly, Michael, I'm out of time here. Will you continue this fight with regard to money -- the Supreme Court, the House, the Senate, if, indeed, you lose this one?
NEWDOW: If I lose, it's going to -- you know, we're going to have to see what the -- if it gets to the Supreme Court, we'll have to see what they say. If they come up with wording that's going to, you know, destroy any chance of success, then, obviously, not. But hopefully, they'll -- you know, if you look at this case, and as far what it represents, I don't think there's any question, legally -- I'm correct -- and this is what the establishment clause exists to prevent.
HEMMER: Yesterday, I mentioned the hornets were buzzing. It continues today. Michael Newdow, the plaintiff in this case, from Sacramento. Thank you, sir.
KAGAN: Hey, if he still has -- before you let him go, can I ask him one quick question, please? Sorry, Bill, to jump in there.
About -- you brought this on behalf of your daughter, your little girl. It's one thing for you to get that kind of reaction. But what about your daughter, and are you concerned for her?
NEWDOW: I'm always concerned for my daughter. She's the greatest kid in the world, and I love her, and I'm trying to keep her out of this. This is my case, as I tried to state before.
KAGAN: Well, what about when she goes back to school?
NEWDOW: I hope, you know, she's in second grade, and I don't think this will be the big news this their classroom.
KAGAN: Certainly hope not, on her behalf. Sorry to jump in there. I just had to ask...
HEMMER: Michael Newdow -- not a problem -- thank you very much.
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