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American Morning
Interview with Bob Beckel, Cliff May
Aired July 02, 2002 - 09:21 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: As we've been reporting this morning, another American errant bomb has killed more Afghan civilians. This time at least 20 people attending the wedding were killed, according to the Pentagon when a B-52 dropped a guided 2,000-pound bomb that went off course.
Could this latest incident add to pressure to find an exit strategy in Afghanistan?
Joining us for today's "Sound Off," from Washington, Democratic political strategist Bob Beckel, and former RNC communications director, Cliff May. I haven't seen you guys in a couple of weeks. Good to see you. Welcome back.
BOB BECKEL, DEMOCRATIC POLITICAL STRATEGIST: Welcome back, Paula.
CLIFF MAY, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Welcome back from vacation.
ZAHN: Nice to be back.
MAY: You look wonderful and rested. Bob doesn't.
BECKEL: Thanks, Cliff. Maybe you could take that balloon flight two times around. Sorry, go ahead.
ZAHN: And Bob will fund it, Cliff. He will find any corporation he could to fund it.
BECKEL: Any time, any time.
MAY: I know he can come up with the hot air to fill it.
ZAHN: Oh, oh, oh. Let's go back to Afghanistan now. There's a lot of speculation because of this errant bomb killing Afghan civilians. There's going to be increased tension between the leader of Afghanistan, Karzai, even at a time when he was calling for a longer peacekeeping mission there. Bob, is it time to stay in or get out?
BECKEL: It's time to get out. It's time to leave aid workers in, and it is time to leave some military in for police, but look, you are going to have to accept the fact, bin Laden and his people got away. Live with it. The idea of dropping bombs because of a few suspected al Qaeda or Taliban people in a cave some place with no intelligence that you're dealing with high-ranking people, and you drop a bomb on a wedding party. You talk about trying to develop an ally in that region, how many people you think in that guy's or that woman's family are going to be allies of the United States. End it. Go someplace else. Enough is enough.
ZAHN: Cliff?
MAY: You know, Paula, one thing that's great about Bob is he never lets consistency get in the way of a good argument. On the one hand, he complains that Bush doesn't have -- is insufficiently multilateral, that he is unilateral, that he is not engaged in the world, and on the other hand, he is saying get out. We are trying to help Afghanistan build a nation. One way you do that is to get rid of those who would wipe out the government and take back over. That's the Taliban and al Qaeda. That's what we are doing there, in cooperation with the government. We should continue to do it.
Now, in this case, listen, this was a tragedy. There's no question about it, and the Afghan people have suffered long enough, and we all should understand that. But we don't know what happened here. It could have been equipment failure, it could have been intelligence failure. Our intelligence is provided by Afghan allies who have been wrong, and have also misled us. It could also be that there are terrorists who are hiding among the civilians, using the civilians as shields. That's a common practice for terrorists. If so, they are responsible.
So what should we do? We should investigate. We, not the U.N., not the international community like some of the British leftists are calling for. We should figure out what happened. If it was our fault, if it was negligence, OK, get rid -- you know, fire those and hold them accountable. Compensate victims and apologize. That's the...
ZAHN: All right. On to the issue, big turn here, Bob Beckel to Al Gore came out swinging against the Bush administration's war on terror over the weekend. This is what he had to say.
"They haven't gotten Osama bin Laden. They have refused to allow enough international troops to enter Afghanistan to make sure this country doesn't slide back under the control of these warlords. President Bush has allowed his political team to use this war as a political wedge issue to score political points and divide this nation."
Now, a number of key Democrats I've talked to with Bob said this was a big mistake, not the way to go, particularly when it became public over the weekend that, in fact, apparently the president of the United States, Bill Clinton, was offered, by the country of Sudan, the -- the expelation (ph) -- they were going to expel Osama bin Laden to him, and they claim he never returned their phone calls. Is this a bad way to go for Al Gore, Bob?
BECKEL: Yes, it is -- well, let me put it this way. First of all, if you are going to build a nation, you have to have some people to build it with. So -- and secondly, no matter what, you shouldn't have bombed them in the first place, but having said that, I think what you saw here, Paula, was Al Gore's opening statement on his run for president. Now is it right, is it wrong? My guess is, right now, sure, in the tone of the times, it is not a good political statement.
However, having said that, I want to remind everybody who doesn't know anything about presidential politics that George Bush Sr. was sitting on 91 percent in the polls 14 months out, and he lost because the economy was bad. This economy, because this administration refuses to indict a blue -- I mean, white collar worker, he could be in trouble, and I don't think people are going to vote...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Bob. You're changing the subject there. Cliff, he did say, he admitted, though, Cliff that it might be mistake on Al Gore's part.
MAY: Let me interpret -- let me interpret -- let me interpret for you. Paula, let me interpret that.
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: Yes, it was a mistake (ph).
MAY: Yes. If Al Gore had a better political strategist, someone like Bob Beckel, he never would have made that statement over the weekend. It was a terrible mistake for him to take that tact. He should be hugging the president on the war. He should say, that's not an issue. We see it the same way because people do trust the path that George Bush has taken in regard to the war. If he would hug him on that, then he could go to other issues in which they disagree. But by challenging him on the war, I think it's just -- it's just a bad strategy, and Bob obviously thinks so too.
ZAHN: OK, but Cliff, Bob just brought up, very quickly, you have got ten seconds left, the issue of the economy, which Democrats, I am told, will use as the key issue going into this election.
MAY: I think Bob is right that...
ZAHN: And a lack of people going to jail, and all these scandals.
MAY: Well, my advice to the president would be to make sure you are the sheriff in terms of this corporate scandal, that you are calling for prosecution of those responsible, and for the kinds of regulatory reforms that are necessary. The capitalist system is not threatened here. It is self-correcting, but these scandals need to punished, and we do need to learn the lessons, and if Republicans get on top of it, it won't be an issue for Bob and his friends.
BECKEL: All right, you are kidding.
ZAHN: Personal news (ph) come out of this segment, Bob? He really likes you. He thinks you should be running Al Gore's campaign.
BECKEL: For Republicans to indict a CEO is like indicting their mother. Just try it once. It is not that hard. I mean, really, give it a try, you will like it.
MAY: I wish my mother were a CEO.
BECKEL: Yes, right. She'd be indicted.
MAY: She is watching, she can go back with her stocks...
BECKEL: Indict Lay, will you? That will help you politically.
ZAHN: All right. We have got to leave it there. Bob Beckel, Cliff May. As always, good to see you. Great to have you back.
BECKEL: You too, Paula, welcome back.
MAY: Great to see you back.
ZAHN: Thank you, nice to be here.
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