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American Morning

Runnion Case D.A. Confident of Guilty Verdict

Aired July 23, 2002 - 08:02   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Up front this morning, Alejandro Avila. He is charged with the murder of 5-year-old Samantha Runnion. The charges include so-called special circumstances, which may pave the way for prosecutors to seek the death penalty.

CNN's Rusty Dornin is standing by in Santa Ana, California this morning with an update -- good morning, Rusty.

RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Paula, you know, those special circumstances include kidnapping and then two counts of lewd acts with a child under 14. Now, Alejandro Avila heard the charges against him via a video hook up in the courtroom yesterday. He did have a public defender assigned to him. Bail was denied and apparently he will not enter a plea until he does come back on August 9.

Now, the Orange County district attorney says the evidence is compelling. He is convinced that he can get a guilty conviction in this case, but he says he is going to think about the decision on whether to seek the death penalty and he's going to seek other input.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TONY RACKAUCKAS, ORANGE COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We have a committee that we refer to as a special circumstance committee and it's made up of people who are, who have a great deal of experience in handling homicides and death penalty cases, deputies in our office. And they can, they get all the evidence, they consider everything and they, we also talk to the family and to the, give the attorneys for the defense a chance to offer whatever insights they would like to offer concerning the person who we're considering. And then after that, I make the final decision as to whether or not to seek the death penalty.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DORNIN: Now, I did ask the D.A. yesterday whether, how much, you know, the family's feelings came into play. He just said it's just part of it. Bottom line, it is up to him and him alone on whether he will seek the death penalty in this case. He feels he can still get an impartial jury in Orange County. So we'll just have to see, probably within the next week or two, whether he, indeed, will step forward. He did say, of course, this is a crime that stunned the nation and anyone who commits a crime like this in Orange County will either spend the rest of their life in jail or they will be executed -- Paula.

ZAHN: All right, Rusty, thanks so much.

And joining us now with a legal analysis is Jeffrey Toobin, our CNN legal expert, legal eagle.

Good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Good morning.

ZAHN: Let's go back to the issue of the district attorney deciding whether to go for the death penalty. Based on the circumstances of this murder, what kind of decision do you think he'll end up making?

TOOBIN: If you believe in the death penalty, if not in this case when? The case is so horrific and it fits within the California statute. One of the special circumstances that's required is was the murder convicted -- committed at the same time as a kidnapping or at the same time as a sexual assault. According to these charges, it was.

So it fits directly within the California death penalty statute. There don't appear to be, at least based on what we know now, any mitigating circumstances, some sort of mental retardation or some sort of abuse that Avila suffered. It seems like a classic textbook case for the death penalty.

ZAHN: Although I asked the district attorney this morning what would hold you back from going for the death penalty and he didn't really answer the question in a specific way, but said, you know, this is what I need to analyze, I need to talk to family members and I need to go through this two week long process that you have to go through in the county.

TOOBIN: Right. And we'd the know. I mean there are situations like family members sometimes have moral or religious objections to the death penalty. And that is something a prosecutor can take very seriously. If that's the case here, I have no reason to think it is, then he might not go forward.

But certainly based on all the evidence that we've seen, it seems like it's a pretty straightforward decision.

ZAHN: The district attorney also told me this morning that he believes that he can get a fair and impartial jury. However, when I asked him if he expects there to be a motion for a change of venue, he said absolutely.

TOOBIN: You know, changes of venue have been such incendiary topics, in California particularly. Remember the Rodney King case, which was moved from Los Angeles to Simi Valley, from a minority area to a white area. The dog mauling case was moved from San Francisco to Los Angeles.

Judges do move cases here. This really might be one where a change of venue motion might be successful because, I mean, the publicity nationwide has been enormous, but in Orange County, southern California, it's been even more.

ZAHN: But come on, where are you going to go in California where people haven't been very affected by this crime in some way?

TOOBIN: Well, it's not, it's not a question of -- people don't have to have been completely ignorant of the crime. It's just the emotional intensity. You know, I think the attention in San Francisco has been less than in Orange County. It's not invisible there, but I mean that's certainly an argument the defense will make.

ZAHN: When you have the D.A. so publicly saying that he is confident that he will get a guilty verdict, what does that signify to you? Is that over confidence on his part?

TOOBIN: You know, the rules about what D.A.s are ethically allowed to say or not are pretty flexible. The cops and D.A.s here are pushing it pretty far. I mean they are indicating extreme confidence. Usually the courts don't...

ZAHN: They think they have a good case.

TOOBIN: They do. They do. But prosecutors never bring a case unless they think they have a good case. And the sort of advertising that they're doing is ethically close to the line. I think it's permissible but, you know, it's, it is an indication that they're very confident.

ZAHN: Before we let you go, let's travel south to the Westerfield case in San Diego.

TOOBIN: All right.

ZAHN: The judge came out yesterday imploring the jury to sort of wipe out from the memory bank anything related to the Samantha Runnion case.

TOOBIN: Very, you know, the places are not too far apart. Orange County and San Diego are practically right next to each other. So obviously the defense is very concerned that there will be some sort of prejudice against Westerfield. You know, I think jurors are pretty smart. They can tell the difference.

But that trial is wrapping up. There was this bizarre 11 day break they were on so the judge could go on vacation, pre-planned. And that trial should probably end next week.

ZAHN: What impact do you think that break is having on the jury?

TOOBIN: Well, it's interesting that it...

ZAHN: They weren't sequestered, right? TOOBIN: They weren't sequestered and they're in the middle of really complex scientific testimony about the time of death. And that's the kind of thing you might lose over 11 days. I don't know which side that helps, but I think it's certainly odd to make the jurors have to remember that kind of stuff for so long.

ZAHN: Is that one of the stranger trials you've seen of late?

TOOBIN: It's very, what's interesting is they're taking tons of notes in that courtroom. I was in there and I -- and there, the jury deliberations, I predict, are going to be long because they're going to have to go through pages and pages of their own notes.

ZAHN: Well, you're five for five on your last predictions so we'll hold you to that, Jeffrey.

TOOBIN: That's -- so maybe I should stop now.

ZAHN: Well, we're going to actually send you out to San Diego to cover the waning stages of that trial.

TOOBIN: Well, I'd like to see that.

ZAHN: We look forward to your insights.

TOOBIN: Next week.

ZAHN: Thanks, Jeffrey.

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