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American Morning

20th Hijacker Due Back in Court

Aired July 25, 2002 - 07:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: In most court cases, entering a plea is a simple process, usually either guilty or not guilty, but nothing has been simple in the case of Zacarias Moussaoui, the man some call the would-be 20th hijacker.

With Moussaoui defending himself, this courtroom drama has turned into the theater of the absurd. Today, he is due back in court, but even that isn't as simple as it might seem.

More now from Deborah Feyerick.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Since his arrest nearly a year ago, prosecutors have refused to consider a plea deal of any sort for Zacarias Moussaoui. But now that Moussaoui wants to plead guilty, an attempt to save himself from the death penalty, could a deal soon be in play? The Justice Department won't say.

LARRY THOMPSON, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: And it would be inappropriate for me to discuss our strategy with respect to that.

FEYERICK: Pleading guilty isn't as easy as it sounds. First, Moussaoui must convince the judge he has done everything the government has accused him of doing. That means admitting he was part of the 9/11 plot to murder Americans and hijack planes, turning them into deadly missiles. Yet, Moussaoui specifically denied taking part in the attacks.

MARK HULKOWER, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Given this defendant's history, it seems unlikely that he's going to be able to answer in such a way that's going to establish both the legal and factual basis for a plea.

FEYERICK: Moussaoui says he knows who planned the attacks and when. He also talked about an ongoing conspiracy led by Osama bin Laden. Sources tell CNN Moussaoui has been in custody so long, his information may no longer be relevant.

But what if he does know something that could be helpful? That's the dilemma facing prosecutors.

ERIC HOLDER, FORMER DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: Do they approach him? Do they try to cut a deal? Do they try to elicit information from him? Do they forego the possibility that they're not going to execute somebody who is responsible for the deaths of 3,000 people on September 11?

FEYERICK: Moussaoui believes once he pleads guilty, he would be able to convince a jury he played a limited role in the attacks.

RICHARD DIETER, DEATH PENALTY INFORMATION CENTER: He is trying to draw, I think, a fine line, that is to say admitting to all of the things and accepting full culpability, and then to try and backtrack, perhaps, and say that you shouldn't give me the death penalty, because I wasn't actually flying the plane.

FEYERICK: A law enforcement source tells CNN Moussaoui has had no meetings, either with prosecutors or his estranged lawyers, since trying to plead guilty last week.

As a sworn enemy of America, Moussaoui may have a hard time convincing prosecutors they can believe what he says, or that he'll live up to a deal, leaving Moussaoui where he started.

IRA ROBBINS, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: As of this point, apparently Mr. Moussaoui, while he wants to plead guilty, apparently is getting nothing in return.

FEYERICK (on camera): There is another catch. In the new indictment, prosecutors list the reasons they feel Moussaoui should be executed. If Moussaoui pleads guilty to it all, one expert says he may, in effect, be signing his own death warrant.

Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZAHN: And joining us now for a closer look at what the day could hold for the Moussaoui case, Jeffrey Toobin, our own legal analyst.

Good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Howdy.

ZAHN: So let's talk a little bit about the plea for a delay. What's going on here? What's going to happen today?

TOOBIN: Well, I mean, this situation is so bizarre. Yesterday, his lawyers, who are not really his lawyers, the people who he fired as his lawyers, made a motion to say, delay this whole process, give him another mental examination, see if he is competent, we want to challenge the death penalty in this case.

But it's unclear if the judge will even entertain that motion, because these lawyers have no standing in the case. So Moussaoui will be back in court a week later, having thought about what he was going to do, but we don't know if he's going to plead guilty or if the judge will accept it.

ZAHN: OK. On the issue of incompetence... TOOBIN: Right.

ZAHN: ... we know he has handwritten more than 100 rambling legal filings, many of them disrespectful. He talks about conspiracies against him at every turn. To the layman, he sounds so incompetent, but so far the judge hasn't been willing to make that conclusion. Why?

TOOBIN: Well, because the standard for insanity, the standard for incompetence in federal court now is very high. You can't just be nutty and get out of being tried. Basically, the test is, do you understand the nature of the charges against you? I mean, if he thinks he's on trial for robbing a shoe store, then he really is incompetent. But he does understand that he's on trial for his role in the September 11 hijackings, so the judge has said he is competent to stand trial, he is competent to represent himself. And that seems unlikely to change based on what's happened in the last month.

ZAHN: So at what point does the judge accept his guilty plea?

TOOBIN: Well, I think today may be the day. But the key moment in any guilty plea is that there are a long series of questions. It often takes at least a half an hour, even in a normal case. I mean, judges are very meticulous about this process.

But the judge always says at some point, OK, Mr. Defendant, tell me in your own words what did you do? What criminal activity did you participate in? He's got to say what his role was in the September 11 hijacking, and it's not clear he is going to say what he did, or he's not going to say what he did is the same thing he is charged with. That's likely to be the most contentious part of this plea.

ZAHN: Then what?

TOOBIN: Well, then what, if she doesn't accept it, she'll just set a trial date, and say, OK, we're going to trial. I mean, it's bizarre, but it has happened that lawyers -- that a defendant simply won't allocute -- that's the legal term -- won't speak the words that he is charged with, and the judge says, I'm not accepting it, let's go to trial.

ZAHN: So then you go to trial very quickly. A synopsis of what might happen then...

TOOBIN: Well...

ZAHN: ... if all this stays the same.

TOOBIN: Then, the trial would go forward in September, as scheduled. Jury selection is supposed to begin in September. And a lot of these statements that Moussaoui has made in court, the government will simply call the court reporter to read to the jury what he said, and you know, go forward like that.

Ultimately, I do think there will be some sort of guilty plea here, because it is simply too crazy to have a guy who wants to plead guilty and not let him do it. But the judge is going to take this very slowly, and she is right to do that.

ZAHN: It's just interesting the jokes that have spawned about the judge not accepting a guilty plea.

TOOBIN: Right.

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: So -- oh, yes, let's take some time off to think about it.

TOOBIN: That's right. No, it's...

ZAHN: Think about what you are saying here.

TOOBIN: But she is doing the right thing. I mean, I've got to defend her.

ZAHN: Thanks for your insights, Jeffrey Toobin.

TOOBIN: OK.

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