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American Morning

Interview with Richard Butler

Aired July 31, 2002 - 07:20   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee begins hearings today on a possible attack against Iraq. The Bush administration insists Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein is involved in the manufacture of weapons of mass destruction. The problem is Hussein will not allow U.N. weapons inspectors in to see if those weapons exist and he hasn't done so for four years.

Joining us now from Washington is the former head of the U.N. weapons inspection team, Richard Butler, who will testify at today's hearing.

Good morning. Welcome back, our ambassador in residence.

RICHARD BUTLER, AMBASSADOR IN RESIDENCE: Good morning, Paula. Good morning.

ZAHN: So what is the current state of Saddam Hussein's arsenal of weapons of mass destruction?

BUTLER: Paula, when they threw us out almost four years ago, they had retained long range illegal missile capability, chemical weapons and biological weapons. Their nuclear program had been stopped for the time being.

Now, in the meantime, there is evidence that those programs have been reinvigorated. In my last technical talk with the Iraqis in Baghdad, I asked them to stop doing what they were doing with their missile program. They refused. There is evidence that they continue to increase the range and number of their missiles.

The same is true across the field, Paula -- chemical, biological, back on track and nuclear we think so, too. Our problem, Paula, is we don't know in what quantities and qualities. That's the inner logic of inspections. You cannot know what they won't let you see.

But that they are back in the business, I think, is clear.

ZAHN: But, Richard, when you yourself were involved with inspections, the fact is Saddam Hussein very quickly moved his arsenal, did he not...

BUTLER: Right. ZAHN: ... from location to location. So even if weapons inspectors were allowed back in, do you have any faith it would be an accurate representation of what was there?

BUTLER: Paula, you're dead right. He moved stuff. His mobility has greatly increased in the last few years. That's something that they've been focused on. He literally buried stuff. One of the very credible reports we have in the intervening period is that there's a new degree of biological work taking place, possibly involving plague and Ebola, truly serious stuff, and that that is taking place in a lab under a big hospital. You know, what, how could we conceivably attack that lab if it involved attacking a hospital? And so on.

The core answer to your question is with the, on inspections is with the greatest of difficulty. And this is one of the traps that we have to avoid. I believe we should insist on trying to get inspectors back in. But, Paula, not if they are phony inspections. That would be more dangerous, I think, than having none at all.

ZAHN: But you can't guarantee that before you go in, can you?

BUTLER: No, you cannot. But that's something that must be made very, very clear to the Iraqis. Look, the administration, as we all know, is thinking of moving in and taking Saddam out. That's what these hearings will be about starting today. Because what is involved there is immensely difficult, immensely costly with a possibly uncertain outcome. I don't mean that we would lose, but what would happen the day after? Who would be in charge in Iraq? Would that new government stay away from weapons of mass destruction? These are very serious questions to which we know we need an answer.

Now, before getting to that, I believe we've got to make, for the last time, very, very clear to Iraq that there is a way out of this through serious arms control inspections. If they indicate, quite frankly as I suspect they will, that they're not prepared to do that, that there wouldn't be genuine inspections, then I guess we have to go to the next stage.

ZAHN: And the next stage in your judgment should be what?

BUTLER: Well, I assume it would be action to remove Saddam. But in that context, I think it is also terribly important, Paula, that the administration participate in this debate that's starting today, that the American people and people beyond in the world know what the real reasons for removal of Saddam are, not just the simple exercise of American muscularity or some kind of vengeance for the past, but the real reasons of substance.

This man is a serial offender in human rights terms. This man is an outlaw. This man has weapons of mass destruction that are diabolical. And there is a panoply of reasons that ought to be made very clear to the world if it is decided to go ahead.

ZAHN: If the United States goes ahead, do you see it going alone?

BUTLER: No, I don't...

ZAHN: I know the British have pledged support, but the British public is sort of waffling on that.

BUTLER: Tony Blair's got a domestic political problem. That's clear. May I say, this is not a promo, but my own country, Australia, has also said that it would be there. And I think there would be others, as well.

I think one of the interesting developments in the last few months, Paula, is how a number of countries who were previously opposed to removal of Saddam, including some Arab countries, at least in private have started to say look, we see the point. Now, my point is that as we move from where we will begin today with these hearings towards some kind of conclusion on this, the administration has to have a very serious debate with the American people, which the world will be watching, and a very serious engagement of the rest of the world in what the really good reasons are for a change of regime in Iraq.

And I think that will help us get the job done if we have to go and do that job, which I suspect we will.

ZAHN: Good luck with your testimony later today at the Senate hearings.

Appreciate your joining us this morning with a little bit of a preview.

BUTLER: Good to see you.

ZAHN: Richard Butler, welcome back to AMERICAN MORNING.

BUTLER: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: We're going to have live coverage when the Senate hearings on Iraq begins. That is set for 9:30 Eastern time this morning.

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