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American Morning
Interview with Jim Paul, Tom Brooks
Aired August 08, 2002 - 08:49 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: A Florida school district is being ordered to reinstate a middle school teacher who reported to work high on cocaine. A judge this week upheld a arbitrator's ruling that Robert Sites must be rehired after completing drug rehab due to a clause in the teacher contract that calls for progressive discipline. Let's talk about the case in Pensacola.
Jim Paul with the Escambia County School District. He is the superintendent. And from Tallahassee, Tom Brooks, the lawyer for Robert Sites in this case -- gentlemen, good morning.
JIM PAUL, SUPERINTENDENT, ESCAMBIA COUNTY SCHOOL DISTRICT: Good morning.
TOM BROOKS, LAWYER FOR ROBERT SITES III: Good morning.
HEMMER: Mr. Paul, look into the teacher's contract for me. What does that phrase mean, "progressive discipline?" Define that.
PAUL: Well, progressive discipline essentially says that when a school district employee, a teacher or any other employee for that matter, does something that is a misbehavior or something that is wrong, that we're to provide a progressive discipline.
Give you a real fast example. If a teacher is late for work, progressive discipline would say the principal would talk to that teacher and say, We're going to put a letter in your file, perhaps. Don't be late again. It happens again, they bring him in, now we're going to suspend you for a few days, and don't be late again. And then you continue that process until it comes to a point that you might have to terminate that person.
HEMMER: I understand the logic. Why is that in the contract?
PAUL: Well, it was put in there years ago. It was negotiated between the school board at that time and the union.
HEMMER: Well, two years ago, you had a case where a school bus driver tested positive for drugs, I believe. Is that right?
PAUL: That's right. Followed the whole process through, and appealed it, and eventually the arbitrator said we had to reinstate the employee.
HEMMER: You had to reinstate the employee. And if that is the case, I know the school board at the time did not want this to happen. Why not change the contract then? PAUL: Well, that's what I think we're going to have to do. We're going to have to sit down and attempt to work with the union. I find it absolutely amazing that a professional organization that says it's concerned about the safety and welfare of students would use their dues paying members' hard earned money in order to return a person to the classroom or to a school where there are children at who is high on cocaine. It is ridiculous, and I won't stand for it.
HEMMER: What about this Sites guy, though, the teacher? He's going to be around kids when he comes back, is he not?
PAUL: Not as far as I am concerned. If -- again, what the judge said is...
HEMMER: Where do you put him, then, within your school district?
PAUL: I don't know, but wherever we put him, we are going to have to find some place to put him where he has no contact with children. I mean, I have taken an oath. When parents bring their children to school, I have to make sure and ensure those parents that their children are safe and that they're secure, and we can't do that as long as there are people that come to work stoked out on cocaine. It is ridiculous and am amazed it has gone this far (ph).
HEMMER: It appears to me, and if I'm a parent in that school district, the way I protect my kids is by changing the contract. Let me bring in Mr. Brooks quickly on this one.
PAUL: Sure.
HEMMER: Does Mr. Sites want to go back to school? I got to think he's absolutely flat out embarrassed and more as a result of this.
BROOKS: Well, of course he's embarrassed. He made a mistake, it's the only mistake he has really ever made in his life. He is a fine man, he comes from a fine pedigree of educators. Teachers, like every other person in society, are susceptible to the same societal problems, and teachers, like everyone else, deserve rehabilitation. That's in fact the opportunity for rehabilitation. That is, in fact, the public policy of this state.
Whether Mr. Paul likes it or not, or whether the school board likes it or not, the arbitrator and the judge did exactly what the state law requires, which is to offer a public employee who first tests positive for illegal drugs the first time the opportunity for rehabilitation and it requires that they be reinstated if they are rehabilitated. That's the state law and that's the public policy.
HEMMER: So has he -- has he gone -- has he gone to rehab, sir?
BROOKS: Yes.
PAUL: No, he hasn't. No, he hasn't.
HEMMER: I have got a yes and a no. Tell me. BROOKS: He has rehabilitated himself. He has been reviewed by the school board designated person with reference to return to work who did not order any further rehabilitation. He has been clean since the day that this incident occurred. He has licked this addiction. There's no evidence to the contrary. He's not a danger to anyone, including students.
HEMMER: All right, listen. I have ten seconds. Mr. Paul, how do you explain to your students within the school district once Mr. Sites is reinstated?
PAUL: You can't explain to them, and we've got to communicate to our students that there are some offenses that you can commit where there is no second chance. These are our children. They're in classrooms. I'm sorry for the gentleman, I am sorry he found himself in that situation that he had to do that. You can't do it around kids. There is no second chance when it comes to our children in the classroom. There is none. I'm sorry he has a problem. He needs to take care of it. I'm not convinced that he has, but I'm certainly not going to allow him to work in the classroom with our children.
HEMMER: All right, thank you men. I wish we had more time. Jim Paul, Tom Brooks in Florida this morning. Thanks for being with us.
PAUL: Thank you.
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