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American Morning

Videos Show Declaration of War on United States

Aired August 20, 2002 - 08:07   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: And now, CNN's exclusive week long look inside al Qaeda.
Correspondent Nic Robertson and his team acquired a terror archive of more than 60 videotapes. If you have been following our series, you know that Nic, through his contacts in Afghanistan, was able to bring back the tapes from what was apparently an al Qaeda library. We have shown you what appears to be al Qaeda members testing what is thought to be deadly gas on dogs.

Well, today Nic brings you what was in many ways Osama bin Laden's and al Qaeda's coming out party, the time when they declared war on America. Until now, you've never seen video of this event. Today, how that group protects Osama bin Laden, as well.

Nic Robertson joins us from our center in Atlanta.

Good morning again, Nic.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning. Good morning.

ZAHN: All right, Nic, what I wanted to do now was isolate some of the shots of Osama bin Laden meeting with a hand picked group of journalists. What was the purpose of this meeting and his calling them together?

ROBERTSON: Well, it's very interesting. We know that earlier in that year he had announced a fatwa along with about five or six other jihadi organizations, an Egyptian organization, a Bangladeshi organization, a Pakistani organization announcing a fatwa, that they were going to attack American interests and Americans.

Now, in the previous year he had announced in an interview with CNN that he would attack American soldiers. During that, he said specifically, though, that, in 1997, that if civilians got in the way, then they would be casualties, but they weren't the targets. What he does in this meeting in 1998 is come out and say that he will attack all American interests, be they soldiers or civilians. And perhaps really significantly here we see a trend that Osama bin Laden establishes and that is the hints later in this press conference where he says that there will be, god willing, he says, that there will be successful, if our operatives are successful, attacks killing Americans.

So he was in many ways laying out that there would be attacks, that this was the beginning of a Jihad, but also being very specific and saying that he did, that there were operations under way. ZAHN: Does anybody really understand what led to his change of thinking where now, you know, the civilian targets were just fine, according to him?

ROBERTSON: Well, it appears very much to have been an escalation. He, by this time Osama bin Laden had been in Afghanistan for about two years. He'd gone there from Sudan. And the analysts we've talked to think that in that time he'd built a secure network of people around him. He'd got his feet on the ground in Afghanistan, if you will, and got his training camps going up and running, and that he'd made all the contacts he wanted with other organizations, other jihadi organizations around the world. Because in this press conference he talks about a world front, that al Qaeda becoming a base and supported by other organizations.

So, it appears that this was the timing for him. He'd got himself organized. He'd been in Afghanistan for long enough. And he was escalating his campaign. He now felt himself to be secure enough both physically and geographically and ready. The organization was in place. The contacts were there, how he would communicate with other groups.

So he was ready to take the battle to the West.

ZAHN: I know that the administration has said that some of the video we're going to look at now of Osama bin Laden's bodyguards is quite useful because you're seeing some of these folks on camera for the first time. What struck me as I watched this for the first time in the way Osama bin Laden moves about is how it appears to be much like a presidential detail.

ROBERTSON: Well, indeed. We talked with somebody who's been a member of a presidential detail and he said it's exactly like it. There are concentric rings of security that expand and contract with the threat. Perhaps one of the only differences is you see there's a man there with a big bushy beard just to the right of Osama bin Laden. He is essentially Osama bin Laden's primary protector, if you will. Unlike in a regular presidential security detail, he's walking ahead of Osama rather than behind. But that's, they say, perhaps the only way this security is different from what would be given to a president.

ZAHN: There are also descriptions of Osama bin Laden being relatively calm during Russian attacks. But there is a scene that I hope we're going to get to now which shows how he was startled by rocket fire. Describe what we should read into this scene here.

ROBERTSON: Well, this is possibly an indication that Osama bin Laden was in an area not immediately under his control, that he'd gone to his location to meet with the journalists and this outer perimeter of security, if you will, was not his own security detail, that this was security belonging to another group and that he felt slightly ill at ease in this, in these surroundings.

And when that RPG, that rocket propelled grenade, went off, it startled him because he didn't know quite where he was, where it was coming from or who was firing it.

ZAHN: It's interesting to note that some of what you showed us yesterday it was quite obvious why al Qaeda would want this stuff archived. But when you look at these scenes, I'm wondering why you think he wanted this committed to tape? Is he just a supreme narcissist?

ROBERTSON: It appears in the collection of videotapes we have that he wanted to record moments that were important to him. And as far as it appears for al Qaeda, this was a very, very important moment. This is where they were coming out publicly, although not publicly the way we would think about it, by broadcasting this material. But they did bring a select handful of journalists in to announce a Jihad to.

But this was, in their minds, their big moment in history. This is where they'd arrived. They were ready now to call on their war on United States' interests around the world, on the Western world.

So this was very much them at their peak, a moment that they probably wanted to record for their posterity.

ZAHN: Well, you've given us a fascinating look inside al Qaeda. Your reports continue throughout the week. We look forward to having you back Wednesday, Thursday and Friday.

Nic Robertson, thanks for the very thorough practice of journalism here.

See you in the morning.

Bill?

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: I think that last point is so well taken. He must be the most photographed terrorist leader in the history of the world. Al Qaeda videotape. And we see that time and time again.

I wonder what Peter Bergen thinks about that? We're going to bring him up next here in a moment here on AMERICAN MORNING.

ZAHN: Who wasn't allowed to have his picture taken at some points when he was called in to interview Osama bin Laden.

HEMMER: Yes, indeed, you're right. And he has...

ZAHN: It was all about al Qaeda's camera.

HEMMER: Yes, that's right. And he has so many thoughts on this.

In a moment here we're going to talk more about the significance of that press conference by bin Laden. We'll talk with Peter Bergen. He was invited to attend. His thoughts when we come back here on AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) HEMMER: In a moment here we're going to bring in one of our terrorism experts, Peter Bergen, a man who met with Osama bin Laden several years ago in Afghanistan, his meeting and what he reads into these videotapes that we've been watching now for the past two days time.

One of the things from yesterday, Paula, that I keep coming back to, we talked to so many experts. We saw the image of the dog in the room and we saw this chemical or this gas or whatever it was being released in the lower left hand corner. All the experts we've talked to had a different opinion about what it was and what it is or what it could be.

The significance to me about that tells me not only how deadly this is, but how mysterious it could be if all these analysts and experts who study this stuff can't finger point it.

ZAHN: Yes, part of the reason -- my understanding from spending a lot of time with Nic over the weekend and looking at some of this tape is the angle at which that piece of video was shot, which showed the glass tube. Because it wasn't shot at an angle where you could clearly make out what was inside there...

HEMMER: That's right.

ZAHN: ... liquid or a powder.

HEMMER: It was almost floor level, wasn't it?

ZAHN: Yes.

HEMMER: Yes.

ZAHN: And I think that handicapped everybody in trying to figure out exactly what the agent was.

HEMMER: Well, I'll tell you a guy that's...

ZAHN: We know that it's deadly, whatever it was.

HEMMER: It is deadly, no question about it.

These tapes, though, Paula, this morning, again, containing a chilling message to the world. Back in 1998 there was a press conference convened and the message from it, al Qaeda has arrived. Osama bin Laden and his officers holding a press conference in Afghanistan about their war that they were launching on the U.S.

One of the journalists invited to that meeting is Peter Bergen, with us now in Washington, D.C.

Check that. He's in Atlanta.

Peter, good morning to you. Great to have you back with us from the CNN Center. One thing I'm curious to know about this videotape that you're watching now from this press conference, why was it that al Qaeda, time and time again, had to bring video cameras into their process and record what they were doing?

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: I think they were interested in documenting what was important to the group. You know, they documented, when we interviewed bin Laden in '97, they shot that. They shot the press conference. They also shot an ABC News interview of bin Laden in '98 a few days after the press conference. They also shot that.

So I think they were interested in creating a sort of a record of their own activities.

HEMMER: Peter, one thing that you find intriguing is that the videotapes were never released to the public before. Why the significance? BERGEN: I would guess probably because there were a lot of people on this videotape that they wouldn't want to, you know, to have the world see publicly. The journalists who were at this press conference were instructed only to shoot bin Laden and the two, his two leadership leaders, the Ayman al-Zawahiri and Mohamed Atta. So the people around bin Laden were not supposed to be seen.

So this was very much meant to be a private videotape.

HEMMER: Yes, Peter, I know you were invited. You did not attend because you had interviewed Osama bin Laden prior to that meeting. But you talked with reporters who did attend. Who were these reporters who were invited and what did they say about that gathering, Peter? BERGEN: There were 27 Pakistani journalists and one Chinese reporter. I talked to a number of the people, a number of the reporters who were at the press conference and they said two very interesting things about the press conference, and now we have them actually on the videotape of the press conference.

At one point, bin Laden talks about how some supporters in Saudi Arabia had been arrested with a Stinger missile, which is further evidence that -- Stinger missiles, as you know, are the most effective anti-aircraft missile in the world. It's further evidence that al Qaeda had acquired these kinds of, these missiles.

The other thing that bin Laden says in this press conference which I think is kind of interesting is he specifically refers to some events in 1992 in Yemen where members of al Qaeda tried to blow up American soldiers in hotels based in Yemen. They were on their way to Somalia for Operation Restore Hope, the humanitarian mission there, which really was the first time that al Qaeda actually started its campaign against Americans. No American soldiers were killed in those incidents, but it's really the first time. And bin Laden specifically refers to it in the tapes of the press conference.

HEMMER: I don't know if we can cue it up, but for our viewers -- we have watched a portion of this videotape where Osama bin Laden is literally walking across the Afghan desert and there's a missile that's shot over his head. I can understand firing guns and firing weapons. That's pretty commonplace in Afghanistan. But why did they fire a missile at the conclusion of this conference? BERGEN: One of the journalists who was at the press conference told me that he thought that another terrorist group, Harkat al-Ansar, a Kashmiri group, was firing off these missiles. And that's why bin Laden's surprised, because he doesn't actually -- it's not al Qaeda that's doing this. This was kind of a bit of a rent a crowd to impress the journalists who were attending the press conference, all this shooting.

I don't think, you know, bin Laden doesn't get this sort of rousing reception every time he goes somewhere. This was clearly intended for the benefit of the journalists at the press conference.

HEMMER: Clearly a show.

Listen, I put this question to Mike Boettcher last hour. I want to get your take on it. If you go back to the closing months of 2001 in December, and even into January, many experts came on our air and said if we do not see a new videotape showing Osama bin Laden that is firm indication that the al Qaeda leader is dead. Do you buy into that, knowing that there has been no release of a new videotape since? BERGEN: Bill, my view is that there's no evidence he's dead, so until there is, I'm going to presume he's alive. I do think that there is a kind of limited window right now for him to come out and make a statement. His spokesman only a few weeks ago said bin Laden is going to make a statement.

I think there's a limited window. If bin Laden wanted to make a psychologically very damaging statement, he'd do it around 9/11. My belief is if he doesn't do it by then, surely there must be some problem that prevents him making these kinds of statements.

HEMMER: Thank you, Peter.

Peter Bergen, our terrorism analyst, in the CNN Center in Atlanta.

Good to talk to you again.

Here's Paula.

Thank you.

ZAHN: Thanks, Bill.

Up next on AMERICAN MORNING, a look at how the tapes are playing on Capitol Hill. We're going to get some congressional reaction coming up right after this break.

This is AMERICAN MORNING.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ZAHN: The exclusive videos from al Qaeda are getting the attention of both the White House and members of Congress. Here with some of that reaction, from Capitol Hill, CNN congressional correspondent Kate Snow, who joins -- well, we can tell exactly where you are this morning, on a glorious day there -- good morning.

KATE SNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula.

One Republican law maker said to me yesterday, you know, ever since September 11, as the months and months pass and nothing else happens, Americans tend to get a little complacent. They tend to forget how terrible, he said, the threat of al Qaeda really is. He said these tapes serve as a wakeup call to remind us.

The reaction, as one Democrat put it from Capitol Hill, is horror and disgust at these tapes, but not surprise. These tapes not surprising people who have been following al Qaeda up here. The tapes, the members say, simply reaffirm how vicious this enemy can be.

Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott in a statement yesterday put it this way: "These tapes only lend further justification to America's worldwide war on terrorism and our mission to eliminate any threats to our way of life."

Democrat Dianne Feinstein called al Qaeda "malevolent, malicious and venal." She said, "It is vital that the United States continue in the strongest terms its military effort against al Qaeda, to bring to justice its leadership and to put its operations out of business wherever they exist." Strong words coming from both sides of the aisle there.

But also some questions raised by law makers, particularly about one of the tapes that we released yesterday on CNN, the tape that shows dogs being apparently poisoned by some sort of chemical agent. One member said to me, you know, don't jump to conclusions about that because we simply don't know from the videotape how lethal that substance could really be.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TIM ROEMER (D), INDIANA: What disturbs everybody is the fact that terrorist groups spend a lot of time and a lot of money and they try to develop this capability, a biological or chemical capability. This tape, however, does not tell us the degree, the toxicity level or the specific degree of success that they've had.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SNOW: Now, Roemer says the U.S. must act, in his words, "as a predator," and go after terrorist groups like al Qaeda at their source, stop them from having laboratories, stop them from being able to reconvene and to perfect their capabilities. Other law makers, Paula, saying that this will add weight to the arguments about what the U.S. should do next, where, perhaps, they should strike again. One law maker saying that this adds weight to the preemptive notion that maybe the U.S. should preemptively go after terrorist groups. Certainly when they come back from their August recess, Paula, I think we're going to see these tapes feeding into some of the debate as they continue to debate where the U.S. goes from here -- Paula.

ZAHN: So, Kate, based on what we've heard this morning and what you have got from these lawmakers, it sounds as though no one was blindsided by the existence of these tapes, that, in fact, they just think that these tapes reinforce the need for the war on terrorism to go on.

SNOW: That's the sense that you get from talking to numbers of lawmakers yesterday, that they, they're not surprised. Look, we've known for a long time, many law makers said to me, that they had these kind of -- that they were working towards these kind of capabilities. We've known that they're angry. We've known that they tape their meetings.

So none of that a big surprise. But certainly, as the White House has said, visual evidence now adding weight to all the arguments -- Paula.

ZAHN: Kate Snow, thanks so much.

Appreciate it.

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