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American Morning

Interview with Ken Pollock

Aired August 27, 2002 - 07:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: President Bush is set to do a little fence mending at his Crawford, Texas ranch today. That's where he's going to meet with the Saudi ambassador, reportedly to fix the strained relations between Washington and a key ally; several issues affecting this relationship.
Ken Pollock, director of National Security Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations, can talk about them. He is in Washington.

Ken, good morning.

KEN POLLOCK, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS: Good morning, Daryn.

KAGAN: Just how strained would you say the relationship is right now between the U.S. and Saudi Arabia?

POLLOCK: Well, there's quite a bit of tension between us and the Saudis right now. It certainly is as bad as we have seen it in the last 10 or 15 years. You might make a case that it's the worst that it's ever been, although I wouldn't push it so far to say that we're about to split apart.

KAGAN: The more I look at this and read about it, it seems as if there is growing pains, perhaps that each side has outgrown the relationship that did work for so many years. And there is pressure at home for both to change the nature of this relationship.

POLLOCK: I think that's a fair way to put it, Daryn. In point of fact, there are new things that have developed in the United States and in Saudi Arabia that are kind of taking us in different directions.

The Saudi people are increasingly unhappy with certain American policies, and especially after September 11, I think the American people are no longer willing to put up with some of the Saudi games that they will play in their own region. And as a result, these are introducing some stresses into the relationship.

KAGAN: In the news today, Vice President Cheney's comments about invading Iraq and saying it has to happen, and it has to happen quickly. You literally wrote the book about invading Iraq. In fact, you have a book coming out next month called "Threatening Storm: A Case for Invading Iraq."

What do you make of the vice president's comments?

POLLOCK: I think that the vice president is trying to make the American people aware, first of all, of the seriousness that the administration places on taking care of Saddam Hussein, removing the threat of Saddam and his weapons of mass destruction, and starting to build that case for them. I think that the administration is looking at a fairly long timeline. We've had the president say that he's a very patient man.

But I think that the administration recognizes that there are a lot of Americans out there who simply don't understand why it is the administration feels that this is such a burning priority. And I think that they recognize that they are going to have to build a case over the next several months, explaining to the American people why this is so important that we may need to go to war with Iraq.

KAGAN: Let's focus back on what's going to happen today back at the ranch and bring in Iraq to this. If and when the U.S. does go into Iraq, how badly does the U.S. need Saudi Arabia in that effort?

POLLOCK: Pretty badly. Can we do it without the Saudis? It's possible. Logistically, militarily, we can do it if we were to get the support of some of the smaller Gulf States. But there are two really important points to keep in mind.

First, it will be very, very hard to do without the Saudis, purely from a military and logistical perspective.

And then beyond that, politically, it will be very difficult for us to secure the support of even Kuwait, Qatar, some of the other smaller Gulf States without Saudi approval. All of those states look to Saudi Arabia as the leading state in the region, and they are going to be very reluctant to break ranks with the Saudis if the Saudis say to them, we don't want you to do it.

KAGAN: Well, and here is the question, of course, Saudi Arabia is not going to give that cooperation and that support for free. What would they expect in return?

POLLOCK: I think this is what Prince Bandar is going to talk to President Bush about. I think that the -- what the Saudis are going to say to the president is, look, we understand the importance of going after Saddam. He threatens us as much as he threatens you.

But I think that what Prince Bandar -- the message that Prince Bandar is going to take is going to be similar to what Crown Prince Abdullah, his boss, brought to Crawford, Texas a number of months ago, basically saying to the president, we're going -- we want to be there for you, we want to help you against Saddam. But what we need from you is active American intervention between the Israelis and the Palestinians to bring down the level of violence there, because until you do that, it's not going to be possible for us to support you against Saddam.

KAGAN: And some Americans might have a problem with that.

Also, quickly, Ken, a big problem that many Americans have with doing business with the Saudis, there are those who believe that the Saudis are at every layer of terrorism and supporting terrorism around the world. How does the U.S. sit down and do business with somebody like that?

POLLOCK: Well, I think that what the United States needs to do is to sit with the Saudis and say, here are our priorities. These are the things that we absolutely must have from you. We need greater intelligence cooperation from you. We need more information about the 15 Saudis who were involved in the September 11 attacks themselves.

The United States has a long list of other people, Saudis, or people who have passed through Saudi Arabia, who we want to know about. We're probably going to say to them, we know about individual Saudis, we know about people inside Saudi Arabia who are supporting different terrorist organizations, we want that shut down, and here is how we'd like to do it.

There are people who pass through Saudi Arabia, terrorists, who use your country to transit. We want that shut down, and here is how we'd like to help you to do it.

The Saudis can be very cooperative when the United States makes clear that it's important to us, when we make clear that we are willing to participate and help them, and when we also demonstrate to them that we are willing to take on board their own concerns and make some accommodations on our part.

KAGAN: We'd love to be a fly on the wall for today's lunch in Crawford, but it's not possible. You're the next best thing.

Ken Pollock from the Council on Foreign Relations, thank you so much for your insight...

POLLOCK: Thank you, Daryn.

KAGAN: ... on the situation from the U.S. and Saudi Arabia.

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