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American Morning
Interview With Leila McDowell
Aired August 29, 2002 - 07:07 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get back to our lead story right now, the indictment of James Ujaama. Federal investigators are saying that he helped set up training camps for jihad fighters in Oregon, and also provided safe houses for terrorists.
Ujaama's family has been outspoken in his defense since he was first detained last month as a material witness, picked up in Denver, in fact.
Ujaama family spokeswoman, Leila McDowell, now live from Washington with more on this.
Good to have you with us this morning.
LEILA MCDOWELL, FAMILY SPOKESWOMAN: Thank you.
HEMMER: I know you are quite new to the case, just about two weeks' time. Why did the federal government finger your client now, James Ujaama?
MCDOWELL: Well, I think that's a very good question, and let's look at who James is. James is a community activist that is from Seattle, has lived there virtually all his life. He has won numerous awards in the community for his community service. He had a day named after him in Seattle by state representatives there, James Ujaama Day, because of his tremendous work with youth, his tremendous work against drugs.
This is a man who cares very deeply about issues. Yes, he is critical of U.S. foreign policy. But I think, as Senator Fulbright said, who was the chair of the Foreign Relations Committee during the Vietnam War, it is the highest patriotism to criticize government, to talk -- to discuss policies of the government during times of crisis.
HEMMER: Leila, what was the intent with the property in Bly, Oregon?
MCDOWELL: Now, as you know, I am not an attorney, and I think that these are the questions that should come out in court. What the problem with this case has been is that James has been held secretly, indefinitely, as a material witness. His attorney in Colorado believes that's been in violation of the material witness statute, which doesn't allow you just to hold somebody.
As you all know, James had been more than happy to cooperate with the grand jury, has said he'd be happy to testify and give any information that he might believe would be relevant. HEMMER: Hey, Leila, what was he doing in Afghanistan three years ago?
MCDOWELL: As I said, these are the questions that need to come out in court.
HEMMER: But these are the questions...
MCDOWELL: The questions...
HEMMER: ... we want to know...
MCDOWELL: But, Bill, wait a minute -- Bill.
HEMMER: ... just so that we can understand the story.
MCDOWELL: But if you could give...
HEMMER: With all due respect, the question is out there...
MCDOWELL: If you could...
HEMMER: ... and if you'd like to answer it, this is your platform now to defend this man.
MCDOWELL: I think that the defense needs to happen in the court. And I would appreciate you letting me finish my sentence, because I think the question is that our democracy and our Constitution is what's on trial right now. The way this case has unfolded, the way that James has been held secretly, they won't even acknowledge that he's in jail. This is the first time that we've even known what the charges are.
So, yes, he has to get an attorney. It will probably be a court- appointed attorney, who can defend him in court.
And he -- and what James said to me yesterday was, one: "Tell my mother and my sister not to cry. I know that I am innocent. My heart is clear, and I welcome the opportunity to finally address some charges in court."
HEMMER: Leila, what was his relationship with Sheikh Hamza in that mosque in London?
MCDOWELL: Again, you are trying to try the case in court, and I -- try the case in the press, and I think this is one of the problems. There have been all these leaks from the FBI to the press that have been printed without scrutiny. Some of those...
HEMMER: Are you saying...
MCDOWELL: Excuse me, Bill, one second.
HEMMER: I...
MCDOWELL: Excuse me, one second. HEMMER: Listen, I am asking the questions here...
MCDOWELL: You're really interrupting me, though.
HEMMER: ... with all due respect. Did he have a relationship with the sheikh in London? I think that's absolutely a fair and legitimate question. Why not answer it?
MCDOWELL: I think a fair question is: Why does the press print, without scrutiny, leaks from the FBI, when we know that the foreign intelligence surveillance court just said that the FBI misled and abused the law when they went to try to get broader powers -- the Justice Department tried to get broader powers? That's the question.
Let's look at who James really is. If you want to answer those questions, I would say, please, do the job that press needs to do in a democracy, which is investigate the kinds of rumors and gossip that often come out in the press.
As you know, you don't need a high standard of proof to indict anyone. It's the ham sandwich standard. As they often say, a prosecutor can indict a ham sandwich, because...
HEMMER: But, Leila, you know the reason why we had you on today was to come out and clear up some of these issues. You know, we tried...
MCDOWELL: Well, I made it very clear...
HEMMER: We tried to push the issue forward...
MCDOWELL: I made it very...
HEMMER: ... and that's what we're trying to do right now. And I'm not trying to be...
MCDOWELL: I made it...
HEMMER: ... confrontational in any way. I want to get your impression and your facts, so you can clear up some of the issues with us here. That's all I'm trying to do here.
MCDOWELL: Well, I think...
HEMMER: Now, are you willing to tell us about the relationship with the sheikh? Are you willing to talk about the property in Oregon, or any of the stuff that is contained in this indictment? Yes or no?
MCDOWELL: I made it very clear when you called me -- when your producers called me that I could not talk about the facts of the case, and I'm not his attorney. I made it very clear...
HEMMER: Thank you, Leila.
MCDOWELL: Thank you. HEMMER: We'll talk again, hopefully.
MCDOWELL: Thank you very much.
HEMMER: Leila McDowell in D.C.
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