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American Morning

Interview with Lawrence Eagleburger

Aired September 02, 2002 - 07:17   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: Could Secretary of State Colin Powell be planning his exit from the Bush administration? Sources close to Powell have told "Time" magazine that the secretary will step down at the end of the president's first term.
The secretary has grown increasingly frustrated over differences in policy issues, according to "Time" magazine.

The latest issue of what to do about Iraq? Powell says the U.S. should first seek a return of U.N. weapons inspectors before anything else. Powell's comments appear to contradict Vice President Dick Cheney, who has been making the case for a preemptive strike.

Lawrence Eagleburger, secretary of state under the first President Bush, is concerned about the current administration's policy on Iraq, and he is in Charlottesville, Virginia this morning. We got him up early on this Labor Day, and we appreciate your time.

Good morning, Mr. Secretary.

LAWRENCE EAGLEBURGER, FMR. SECRETARY OF STATE: Good morning. It is early.

KAGAN: It is early. You can confirm that for us.

What do you make -- what has us talking here the most here this morning is this report in "Time" magazine that Colin Powell will step down -- is making plans to step down after Bush's first term.

EAGLEBURGER: Well, you know, I've been in enough administrations, where those sorts of reports go on and on. And it may be that at this stage, he is frustrated, and if he were, I would understand it. That may be that's the way he feels now, and two years from now, he may feel quite differently.

So, I wouldn't put too much stock in it at this stage. It's too early to tell.

KAGAN: So you say wait and see on that. But one thing is clear. He is speaking out. He gave an interview over the weekend to the BBC, and excerpts of that have been released.

EAGLEBURGER: Right.

KAGAN: He is coming out with a different platform than the very strong words we have been hearing from Vice President Dick Cheney over the last week or so. EAGLEBURGER: Well, if you will take it from a has-been who has been through a number of these, I would suggest to this administration that it would be a good idea if they would get their act together. They've got to...

KAGAN: What is going on here, Mr. Secretary, this debate within the administration taking place in the national newspapers and on the network airwaves?

EAGLEBURGER: Well, what's going on, I think, to the best I can figure it out, is we have a vice president who very clearly has one view on how to deal with Iraq, and he is out there every week explaining it to us, and he is clearly the spokesman for a particular point of view.

The secretary of state, I think, fairly clearly has a different view, and it was always my impression that the secretary of state was the president's senior adviser on foreign policy affairs, not necessarily the vice president, but maybe this is a different administration.

But anyway, I think it's fairly clear that the secretary of state has a somewhat more nuanced view of what to do on this subject than does the vice president. And what I am not clear about is where the president is on all of this, other than to say that every time the vice president gives one of these speeches, it is also then made clear that the president has not yet made up his mind.

So what I am saying to you, I think, is it would be very nice if everybody in the administration would cool it a bit, if they would carry on their discussions amongst themselves. And when they finally have a position that they have decided on and that the president has made up his mind on, then they would get out and tell us all what it is.

And I think it is not necessarily good for the country, good for the administration and good for our position in the world, when we carry out this debate in the open all of the time...

KAGAN: Let me just jump in here...

EAGLEBURGER: ... and over some weeks.

KAGAN: I want to jump in here a second, just because you have been very vocal about what your own opinion is on how the U.S. should act here. And you said the U.S. should not go in without international support, and you would rather wait until there is proof positive that, in fact, Saddam Hussein does have the capability of having nuclear weapons and firing those off.

EAGLEBURGER: Not quite. But I have said...

KAGAN: Not quite. What did I miss on that?

EAGLEBURGER: Not quite. Proof positive goes too far, I think.

KAGAN: OK.

EAGLEBURGER: What I have said is I think, unless the president is prepared to come to us and say to the American people, I've looked at the evidence, I can't reveal it all, it's classified or whatever, but I, the president of the United States, am telling you that there is enough evidence to satisfy me -- that is the president -- that Saddam Hussein is on the edge of having a nuclear weapon. And that it is not in the security interests of the United States or our allies or the Middle East for him to have that nuclear weapon. And therefore, it seems to me, the president, that we must go in, even if we have to go in unilaterally.

If he is prepared to say that, I am prepared to shut up and say, OK. What I can't quite see at this stage is that the evidence, even to the president, seems to be that clear. And if it is that clear, I can't understand why we are not capable of convincing our closest allies that given that evidence, they ought to join us in this effort.

KAGAN: Well, we know we'll be hearing from the president twice in the next week, September 11 remembrances. Also September 12, he addresses the General Assembly of the United Nations. We will be listening in then.

Lawrence Eagleburger, thanks for joining us, as you pointed out, early on this Labor Day morning -- appreciate it so much.

EAGLEBURGER: Thank you, ma'am.

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