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American Morning

Interview with Rick Santorum, Joseph Biden

Aired September 13, 2002 - 07:35   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Back to the issue of Iraq, members of Congress from both sides of the aisle are generally giving the president high marks for his speech to the U.N. Mr. Bush said Saddam Hussein is exactly the kind of threat the United Nations was formed to prevent.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Saddam Hussein's regime is a grave and gathering danger. To suggest otherwise is to hope against the evidence. To assume this regime's good faith is to bet the lives of millions and the peace of the world in a reckless gamble.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: Getting the Security Council on board may have strengthened the president's case in the eyes of law makers. But now the real work begins, as the Security Council tries to cobble together, with Secretary of State Powell, a resolution.

And from the Senate Gallery right now is Delaware Senator Joseph Biden, chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, and Pennsylvania's Rick Santorum, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Welcome to both of you.

Appreciate your time this morning.

SEN. RICK SANTORUM (R-PA), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Thank you.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D-DE), FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Good to be here.

ZAHN: Senator Santorum, although the president's speech seemed to be positively received -- if you pick up most of the major editorials today -- the one criticism was that the president didn't prove his case for any sense of urgency. What do you think?

SANTORUM: Well, again, what the president was trying to do was lay out the reasons that the United Nations should act. And I think he did challenge the United Nations to be more than a paper tiger, to actually, you know, stand behind their resolutions and enforce them. And I think that was really the call yesterday.

There's all sorts of briefings and discussions going on from the president down to the secretary of state and the secretary of defense with our allies, letting them know more detailed information that we have, more intelligence information that we have, that I think is more appropriate in a closed setting as opposed to a more public setting.

And I think the president made the case to the U.N. as a body. That was his role yesterday. And now his role in the future will be laying out more detail of the information we have and I think building the case that action is necessary now.

ZAHN: Senator Biden, Secretary of State Powell was just with us a couple of minutes ago and he used the example of how during the Clinton administration the president basically operated outside of the U.N. because the U.N. didn't have the inclination to reinforce some things going on in Kosovo. And I asked him whether he thinks the U.N. has the inclination this time around to make any of these resolutions stick that are already on the books. And he said, I guess he's hopeful. Are you?

BIDEN: I am hopeful. And I think what Senator Santorum just said is really an important point. We shouldn't make this horse carry more of a sleigh than it's designed to. Let me put it in perspective here. The president had a job yesterday. He did it incredibly well. And it was to say to the United Nations, by your standards, United Nations, by your standards, you have not done your job relative to Saddam Hussein. I'm asking you to do it.

That's a different case than the case to make to the American people, which says now it's time to go to war if they don't.

The fact is that Colin Powell said this morning on the show, and probably told you, as well, he said the president did not declare war yesterday. He declared the United Nations has a responsibility to step up to what they said they would do and they haven't done. And I believe Colin Powell will be able to convince them to step up to that ball.

ZAHN: So essentially what you senators are saying this morning, the onus really falls on the U.N.

BIDEN: Absolutely, positively, unequivocally. And we reserve the right, as we did in Kosovo, we reserve the right, if they fail to act by their own standards, we reserve the right to act independently. At that point, I assume the president would come to us and say all right, Senator Santorum, Senator Biden, et al, I want your authority to do the following. And we will sit, or at least I, speaking for myself, sit and say Mr. President, what is it you want and tell me why you want it. And then I will go to my people and the American people. We'll discuss it. I mean in a short time frame here. And we'll either decide that authority should or shouldn't be given. And I'm inclined to think if the president does it that way, he'll get whatever authority he seeks in that context.

ZAHN: Senator Santorum, do you believe that the U.N. this time around will want to make or will make the resolutions that already exist stick and be enforced?

SANTORUM: Well, I think what you're seeing is you're beginning to see some support within the international community and that's a positive sign. I think the president, frankly, will probably come here to the Congress relatively soon and ask the Congress' support, in a sense backing him up, and hopefully prodding the United Nations...

ZAHN: But that's a different issue, sir, than getting the U.N. to stand up for the agreements that have already been made.

SANTORUM: No, but I...

ZAHN: I mean do you have faith that that's going to happen?

SANTORUM: Well, I guess my point is that I think if he comes to the Congress and the Congress gives overwhelming support, I think that builds his case even stronger that America is fully committed. If there's any question that, among our allies and among the United Nations that there's some controversy here in the U.S., that there's a divided sense of whether we should go or not, if there's any question whether the president has the backing of the people of America, I think that will be set aside when Congress acts and I think will be an incentive for the United Nations to move forward because it'll be very clear at that point that the United States is ready to go.

ZAHN: Senator Biden, do you ever see Saddam Hussein complying with existing U.N. resolutions or even new resolutions?

BIDEN: I see it as a possibility. Paula, I think this man is a survivalist rather than a suicide guy, and therefore I think that if he really believed that the Security Council, including with the support of China and Russia, was willing to come after him, I think he would decide to part, could decide to part with his weapons rather than his reign.

But there is movement, Paula. Remember, just a month ago Chirac of France said no, this is, no, nothing. We, look, we're picking on this guy too much. And yet he's the one who's come forward with a very strong resolution that says unfettered inspections and if you don't, we reserve the right to come after you, Saddam.

So there is movement, Paula. And I think there's something to what Rick, what Senator Santorum says about the degree to which the world knows we support the president, the degree to which they're more inclined to think we'd better act or they will.

But I don't think that requires us to a declaration of war. We could pass a resolution tomorrow saying Mr., we strongly support everything the president said at the United Nations, we stand behind him. And so the president hasn't even asked for a detailed resolution at the U.N. yet. I don't know how he could come and ask for a detailed resolution, which is equivalent to an act of war, from us.

And so I think we should just slow down, let the president, let the president approach this the way he has. I think he's being responsible the way he's doing it and I think he has a prospect of getting the world behind it.

ZAHN: Gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it there this morning.

Thank you for joining us jointly. Usually when we have these appearances, we have the Republican in one studio and the Democrat in another.

Thank you.

BIDEN: Our states are side by side.

SANTORUM: We get together OK.

ZAHN: We knew there had to be a reason for this newfound togetherness. Thank you again for your time today.

BIDEN: Thank you.

SANTORUM: Thank you.

ZAHN: We appreciate it.

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