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American Morning

Interview With Rep. Brian Baird

Aired September 16, 2002 - 08:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: On to something a lot of people talk about, sex and politics. It is a combination that has brought down some giants in Washington. The infamous relationship between former President Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinsky led to Clinton's impeachment. The relationship between slain intern Chandra Levy and congressman Gary Condit ended his career.
Now two members of Congress saying enough is enough. They want to ban sexual relationships between members of Congress and their interns. You could say Congressman Brian Baird, one of the resolution's sponsors, wrote the book on the subject. He is a clinical psychologist, author of "The Internship Field Placement Handbook," which he joins us on a very early morning indeed from Portland, Oregon.

Good to have you with us, congressman. Thanks for your time this morning.

REP. BRIAN BAIRD (D), WASHINGTON: Good to be with you, Paula.

ZAHN: First of all, if we are supposed to trust our elected officials to represent our interests when it comes to things like our economic concerns to our concerns about what might happen in Iraq, why shouldn't we be able to trust them to use good judgment with their interns without a piece of legislation?

BAIRD: Well, you raise a good point. But you know, many of the professions -- as you mentioned, I wrote the textbook on internships and psychology. In those professions, we've recognized it's normal for relationships to develop between people, but it's important to set some parameters, so that when a young person goes to Capitol Hill, the only thing that should be on their mind is the opportunity for an educational experience, and people should look at that with pride.

Too often today, when someone mentioned they are going to be an intern, it's looked at with a certain salacious or prurient interest. And what we're trying to do is get past this. We are trying to say, look, if an intern is in your office, the sole purpose of that relationship is to make sure that they learn, have a professional experience, and this will help get us past some of the recent stories and back to a situation where an internship is a source of legitimate pride.

ZAHN: But help us understand this resolution a little bit better this morning. Essentially, it will say, you can't have an affair with your own intern, but it certainly wouldn't ban you from having an affair with one of your colleague's interns, right? BAIRD: Understand, all over Capitol Hill, there are people who work in internships that range from college students to people in their 40s, 50s, even 70s. So I think it would be really rather silly for the Congress to say no one in any internship role anywhere in the government can have a relationship with anyone else.

But I think if someone is in your office, that is difference. That is a direct supervisory relationship, and in many other professions, that has been prohibited, and I don't think it's a great reach to ask Congress to also make that position and set some parameters. This will protect the interns, it will protect the members of Congress themselves, and I think it will protect the institution and help us move past this and get on with the proper business of Congress.

ZAHN: But the way this resolution is written would not have stopped a relationship, would it, between Gary Condit and Chandra Levy, because she didn't work directly for him?

BAIRD: No, it would not. And that is their choice and people can agree or disagree with that choice. What this relationship focuses on is within the office of the member of Congress, and I think ultimately other governmental agencies should follow suit. Within the office where you work and where there is an intern, the interns are there to learn, and that should be the sole focus, and we really need to make sure that parameter is set, so that everyone can be clear about what the rules are and can follow those rules.

ZAHN: Congressman, how many elected officials in Washington do you think are having affairs with their interns?

BAIRD: I think it's a very, very small number. I don't think it's a real problem in terms of the fact that it happens frequently. I don't think it does.

But what we have is a perceptual problem. I think if you ask any young person serving as an intern right now, it at least has crossed their mind that they may be the butt of jokes, or salacious comments, and that really shouldn't be. They should be -- if you say to someone,. I'm going to Congress to be an intern, you should have legitimate pride in that. You're serving your country, your developing your knowledge of how our government works, and that's all that should be the focus.

So by setting this rule, we can get past that unfortunate connotation, and I think it will help us move forward. That is why Scott McGinnis of Colorado and myself are joined together to put this proposal forward.

ZAHN: But and your two colleagues have got to concede you've taken some grief over this, because I know you have become the butt of some radio talk shows. They go, like, oh what now? This resolution sticks, and you are going to have, you know, sexual police patrolling the halls of Congress. Tell us why they're wrong and how you even go about enforcing something like this. BAIRD: Well, within the professions, within psychology, for example, we have codes of ethics, and the codes of ethics prohibit relationships, for example, with patients or with students, and those are thoroughly appropriate. And those were developed over time when it was recognized that you need to set some limits, so it's clear cut.

And again, this will protect the members of Congress and the interns. There just won't be a question anymore, is this relationship acceptable, is it desirable? You know, you just don't do it. You focus on what the purpose of the intern being there is, and that's to learn, and you focus on the task ahead of you.

We've got so many important things we deal with in Congress. We really must get past this distraction that we've had over the last couple of years. And actually, Scott, and I hadn't expected any press on this. We were just trying to put forward a small rule change to guide members, and interns and the staff on how they should conduct themselves, and it's kind of sad that it's become such a story and the butt of jokes. That is precisely the problem. What we're trying to do is let's set the limit and draw the line and let's move forward, and get this country back on what it's supposed to be getting back to and allow internships to be a source of pride again.

ZAHN: Congressman, we've just got 10 seconds left. If this resolution passes, what do you think should happen to someone who violates it?

BAIRD: Well, that will be up to the rules and the ethics committees within the Congress, and they'll decide, depending on the nature of the circumstance.

ZAHN: All right, Congressman Brian Baird, we really appreciate you getting up in the middle of the night this morning to help us better understand this proposed resolution. Thank you again for joining us this morning.

BAIRD: My pleasure.

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