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American Morning

Interview with Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL)

Aired September 19, 2002 - 08:06   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: On Capitol Hill on Wednesday, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the world can't afford to take a wait and see approach toward Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, if one were to compare the scraps of information that the government had before September 11 to the volumes of information the government has today about Iraq's pursuit of weapons of mass destruction, his use of those weapons, his record of aggression and his consistent hostility towards the United States, and then factor in our country's demonstrated then vulnerability after September 11, the case the president made should be clear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: While the White House is pushing for use of force, Illinois Senator Richard Durbin is preaching patience. He says the president should give weapons inspections a chance.

And Senator Durbin joins us this morning from Capitol Hill.

Welcome back.

Good to see you again, sir.

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: Good to be with you.

ZAHN: Let's talk about why you have faith in inspections. David Kay, who joined the nuclear weapons inspection team back in the late '90s, or, excuse me, early '90s, said inspections are "damn near mission impossible."

Why do you think they'd work this time around?

DURBIN: Well, first, I think there's real value to working through the United Nations. It will not only give us strength in numbers, but clarity of purpose and some sharing of this burden, not only to put the pressure on Saddam Hussein, but ultimately, if military action is necessary, it'll be a multinational approach rather than the United States going it alone or with very few allies.

That means a greater chance of success. It means that if there's going to be a reaction across the world, it will be a lessened reaction because we have United Nations support. Going specifically to inspections, I think it's time for the United Nations to define inspections in new, meaningful terms, to take Saddam Hussein at his word, unconditional inspections led by U.S. forces, multinational forces with U.S. involvement, I should say, that really go on the ground to make certain that the inspections are meaningful.

ZAHN: Do you really believe without that threat of military force that Saddam Hussein would ever show these inspectors what they really want to see?

DURBIN: Well, frankly, let's let the United Nations do the job the president challenged them to do last week. He said if the United Nations is relevant, then it must act. And the United Nations has responded. And I think some movement has taken place. But now I hear from the administration that we really didn't mean it. We don't care what the United Nations does. We're going to go it alone.

I think that's the wrong approach. Let's really push for meaningful inspections, ones that will tell us once and for all if there are weapons of mass destruction, where they are and destroy them.

ZAHN: The president has told Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle that any resolution that would require the U.S. to take action in conjunction with the U.N. is "totally unacceptable." Where does this leave the debate in Congress, then?

DURBIN: Well, of course it raises a question about what was the trip to New York all about last week? I thought President Bush went to New York representing the United States as a member of the United Nations and challenge them to be meaningful and relevant and to rise to this challenge. And now we've basically said a week later we didn't mean it. We're going to do it by ourselves.

I don't think that's the best approach. Listen, Saddam Hussein is a threat to his country, to his region. We need to contain the danger which he is emanating. But frankly, we've got to make certain that we do it in a fashion that lessens the likelihood of terrorist attacks across the United States, lessens the likelihood that the burden of stabilizing Iraq is the United States' alone.

ZAHN: So you're essentially saying the broad authority the president wants may not be the best approach but in the end would you vote for a congressional authorization that would allow the U.S. to act unilaterally?

DURBIN: What I would vote for is to authorize the United States to vote in the United Nations for the use of force. I believe that gives us an opportunity to work with the United Nations to continue to build this global coalition against Saddam Hussein. If it doesn't work, if the inspections don't work, if the United Nations is unresponsive, Congress can then act.

ZAHN: The president reportedly will hand over his resolution to Congress at some point today for everybody to debate and chew on. Realistically, what's this resolution going to look like once it goes through this process?

DURBIN: Well, I think the resolution is going to be clear, at least from White House reports, that it's going to be a unilateral action by the United States against Iraq. I thought that idea was abandoned several weeks ago, but clearly we have returned to it. I think the United Nations should be part of it.

ZAHN: But what happens once Congress, what happens when Congress has a chance then to debate it?

DURBIN: Well, I think there's going to be bipartisan feeling on both sides. I don't think this is going to break down along party lines. I've spoken to some of my Republican colleagues in the Senate yesterday and they feel as I do about the role of the United Nations in this effort.

So I think you're going to see a healthy debate. No one is making any excuses for Saddam Hussein. But let's find the best strategy to take that will make sure that what we do is effective, has global support and has long-term staying power.

ZAHN: Senator Richard Durbin, thanks for dropping by AMERICAN MORNING this morning.

DURBIN: Thank you.

ZAHN: Appreciate your time.

And the man who led American troops in a war against Iraq, General Tommy Franks, chief of the U.S. Central Command, has arrived in Kuwait for a meeting with regional commanders.

Martin Savidge is standing by there. He joins us from video phone this morning -- Martin, good morning.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Paula.

Three o'clock in the afternoon here. Temperature 110 degrees. Something to keep in mind if U.S. forces do become active in Iraq.

General Tommy Franks did arrive earlier today. They thought he was coming in yesterday, but, in fact, he postponed it for a day. He's gone off for his meeting. Everyone has gone out of their way to say this is normal. The Kuwaitis say it's normal, the U.S. officials say it's normal, this had been planned, it had been scheduled, it is routine for him to come in and meet with his commanders, it's not a war meeting.

Other things, though, make it seem rather interesting. There is a large U.S. military exercise under way with Kuwaiti forces up near the Iraqi border. This is Operation Desert Spring. Been going on now for several months. Likely to continue. They constantly rotate U.S. forces in and out.

Now, the marines at the end of this month have their own operation. It's called Operation Eager Mace, which certainly sounds formidable. Two thousand U.S. Marines coming ashore with amphibious landing craft, aircraft and land vehicles, working in conjunction with Kuwaiti forces. This is an interesting scenario because, of course, Kuwait is seen as a staging area. Forces coming in from the sea if conventional troops are used.

And then finally, the Belleau Wood, which was going to be used in that, is sitting off of the small nation of Djibouti. Eight hundred U.S. special forces there, possibly poised to go into Somalia or Yemen. So as you see, Kuwait and this region very much feeling and saying normal, but not normal -- Paula.

ZAHN: Martin Savidge, thanks so much for that update.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired September 19, 2002 - 08:06   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: On Capitol Hill on Wednesday, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said the world can't afford to take a wait and see approach toward Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Well, if one were to compare the scraps of information that the government had before September 11 to the volumes of information the government has today about Iraq's pursuit of weapons of mass destruction, his use of those weapons, his record of aggression and his consistent hostility towards the United States, and then factor in our country's demonstrated then vulnerability after September 11, the case the president made should be clear.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: While the White House is pushing for use of force, Illinois Senator Richard Durbin is preaching patience. He says the president should give weapons inspections a chance.

And Senator Durbin joins us this morning from Capitol Hill.

Welcome back.

Good to see you again, sir.

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: Good to be with you.

ZAHN: Let's talk about why you have faith in inspections. David Kay, who joined the nuclear weapons inspection team back in the late '90s, or, excuse me, early '90s, said inspections are "damn near mission impossible."

Why do you think they'd work this time around?

DURBIN: Well, first, I think there's real value to working through the United Nations. It will not only give us strength in numbers, but clarity of purpose and some sharing of this burden, not only to put the pressure on Saddam Hussein, but ultimately, if military action is necessary, it'll be a multinational approach rather than the United States going it alone or with very few allies.

That means a greater chance of success. It means that if there's going to be a reaction across the world, it will be a lessened reaction because we have United Nations support. Going specifically to inspections, I think it's time for the United Nations to define inspections in new, meaningful terms, to take Saddam Hussein at his word, unconditional inspections led by U.S. forces, multinational forces with U.S. involvement, I should say, that really go on the ground to make certain that the inspections are meaningful.

ZAHN: Do you really believe without that threat of military force that Saddam Hussein would ever show these inspectors what they really want to see?

DURBIN: Well, frankly, let's let the United Nations do the job the president challenged them to do last week. He said if the United Nations is relevant, then it must act. And the United Nations has responded. And I think some movement has taken place. But now I hear from the administration that we really didn't mean it. We don't care what the United Nations does. We're going to go it alone.

I think that's the wrong approach. Let's really push for meaningful inspections, ones that will tell us once and for all if there are weapons of mass destruction, where they are and destroy them.

ZAHN: The president has told Senate Minority Leader Tom Daschle that any resolution that would require the U.S. to take action in conjunction with the U.N. is "totally unacceptable." Where does this leave the debate in Congress, then?

DURBIN: Well, of course it raises a question about what was the trip to New York all about last week? I thought President Bush went to New York representing the United States as a member of the United Nations and challenge them to be meaningful and relevant and to rise to this challenge. And now we've basically said a week later we didn't mean it. We're going to do it by ourselves.

I don't think that's the best approach. Listen, Saddam Hussein is a threat to his country, to his region. We need to contain the danger which he is emanating. But frankly, we've got to make certain that we do it in a fashion that lessens the likelihood of terrorist attacks across the United States, lessens the likelihood that the burden of stabilizing Iraq is the United States' alone.

ZAHN: So you're essentially saying the broad authority the president wants may not be the best approach but in the end would you vote for a congressional authorization that would allow the U.S. to act unilaterally?

DURBIN: What I would vote for is to authorize the United States to vote in the United Nations for the use of force. I believe that gives us an opportunity to work with the United Nations to continue to build this global coalition against Saddam Hussein. If it doesn't work, if the inspections don't work, if the United Nations is unresponsive, Congress can then act.

ZAHN: The president reportedly will hand over his resolution to Congress at some point today for everybody to debate and chew on. Realistically, what's this resolution going to look like once it goes through this process?

DURBIN: Well, I think the resolution is going to be clear, at least from White House reports, that it's going to be a unilateral action by the United States against Iraq. I thought that idea was abandoned several weeks ago, but clearly we have returned to it. I think the United Nations should be part of it.

ZAHN: But what happens once Congress, what happens when Congress has a chance then to debate it?

DURBIN: Well, I think there's going to be bipartisan feeling on both sides. I don't think this is going to break down along party lines. I've spoken to some of my Republican colleagues in the Senate yesterday and they feel as I do about the role of the United Nations in this effort.

So I think you're going to see a healthy debate. No one is making any excuses for Saddam Hussein. But let's find the best strategy to take that will make sure that what we do is effective, has global support and has long-term staying power.

ZAHN: Senator Richard Durbin, thanks for dropping by AMERICAN MORNING this morning.

DURBIN: Thank you.

ZAHN: Appreciate your time.

And the man who led American troops in a war against Iraq, General Tommy Franks, chief of the U.S. Central Command, has arrived in Kuwait for a meeting with regional commanders.

Martin Savidge is standing by there. He joins us from video phone this morning -- Martin, good morning.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Paula.

Three o'clock in the afternoon here. Temperature 110 degrees. Something to keep in mind if U.S. forces do become active in Iraq.

General Tommy Franks did arrive earlier today. They thought he was coming in yesterday, but, in fact, he postponed it for a day. He's gone off for his meeting. Everyone has gone out of their way to say this is normal. The Kuwaitis say it's normal, the U.S. officials say it's normal, this had been planned, it had been scheduled, it is routine for him to come in and meet with his commanders, it's not a war meeting.

Other things, though, make it seem rather interesting. There is a large U.S. military exercise under way with Kuwaiti forces up near the Iraqi border. This is Operation Desert Spring. Been going on now for several months. Likely to continue. They constantly rotate U.S. forces in and out.

Now, the marines at the end of this month have their own operation. It's called Operation Eager Mace, which certainly sounds formidable. Two thousand U.S. Marines coming ashore with amphibious landing craft, aircraft and land vehicles, working in conjunction with Kuwaiti forces. This is an interesting scenario because, of course, Kuwait is seen as a staging area. Forces coming in from the sea if conventional troops are used.

And then finally, the Belleau Wood, which was going to be used in that, is sitting off of the small nation of Djibouti. Eight hundred U.S. special forces there, possibly poised to go into Somalia or Yemen. So as you see, Kuwait and this region very much feeling and saying normal, but not normal -- Paula.

ZAHN: Martin Savidge, thanks so much for that update.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com