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American Morning

Interview With Hanan Ashrawi

Aired September 24, 2002 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The U.N. Security Council condemned Israel for its ongoing siege of Yasser Arafat in a resolution that was passed in the wee hours of this morning, while Israeli troops and attack helicopters entered Gaza City in two predawn raids killing nine Palestinians. Palestinian legislator Hanan Ashrawi joins us now from Washington.
Welcome back. Question for you, do you see any scenario where anybody inside the compound will be turned over to Israeli officials?

HANAN ASHRAWI, PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: No, I don't, because this has been a long standing issue, and this is part of the agreement, that no Palestinians will be handed over to Israel, and if there are any people who have violated the law, they will be tried in accordance with Palestinian law.

Unfortunately, this has been another convenient pretext. All we say is we want people inside the compound, or we need people handed over to us. You must understand that there is no collaborative system in Palestine that will hand over Palestinians to the Israeli occupation.

However, anybody, as I said, who violates the law should be tried in accordance with Palestinians law.

ZAHN: Do you have any reason to believe that the men the Israelis describe as terrorists, who are trapped inside, have violated the law?

ASHRAWI: Well, we don't know whom they want. They don't know. This is a blatant fishing expedition. We're asking for a list of people inside the compound, knowing very well most of them are just people who work at the presidential headquarters, who are Arafat's aides, or assistants or personal guards. They have only two names, and these names they know are the names of the head of intelligence and head of 417 (ph). These are the two people who have been working with Arafat , who actually cooperated with them. According to Arafat, they even helped the Israelis prevent suicide bombings.

So this is another blatant pretext, and I don't think going down that road will solve anything.

ZAHN: Let me ask you this, if you don't believe Yasser Arafat will turn over any of the alleged terrorists to the Israelis, do you see a situation where he will, in fact, hand over names of those inside the compound? ASHRAWI: No, I don't because this is not a shopping list either. You don't hand over Palestinian people's names to the Israelis so they can start saying whom they want it arrest, or detain, or expel, or arrest or kill or whatever.

No, I think there are ways to solve this. Just lift the siege, not just on Arafat's compound, but on the Palestinian people, and to resume meaningful substantive negotiations in good faith. This is what hasn't happened since the beginning.

Any time of escalation, any type of targeting, scapegoating or punishing a whole nation would only aggravate the situation further, Paula.

ZAHN: Former Prime Minister Ehud Barak was on the air a little bit earlier this morning, and he said, the reason why Israeli troops are there is to stop the extremism. And he said, if Yasser Arafat wanted to, he could control the suicide bombers and the others who carry out attacks against Israelis. Your reaction?

I don't think that this is an accurate assessment. Maybe he could have done that earlier before Israel targeted Arafat, and trimmed his wings, so to speak, clipped his wings repeatedly and held him prisoner or hostage in his own headquarters, and before they targeted his security people.

Right now, the situation is extremely difficult, and by trying to target Arafat over and over again and find a scapegoat like that, they're allowing the situation to escalate, and they're actually feeding extremism. Because extremism on one side would encourage its counterpart on the other, and they're legitimizing the use of violence. I think both sides have to refrain from violence, and if you know people who violate the law, then there is such a thing as due process. And of course the people who claim responsibility for the latest bombings have nothing to do with the Authority. They are actually in the opposition.

ZAHN: There is a lot of speculation about just how much power Yasser Arafat has. There is recent report in "Time" magazine that talks about the Fatah counsel pretty much saying Arafat is being exposed to some mutiny on his own team. They are looking to create a position of prime minister that would sort of run the day-to-day business for the Palestinians. The role of president would be highly ceremonial, and that apparently is something Arafat is very opposed to. But the suggestion of this report is that he doesn't have that much support among the Fatah counsel. Is that true?

ASHRAWI: Well, there has been a growing movement for reform, for decentralization, for accountability, and this movement wish to speak with the vote of the legislative council or refusal to give the cabinet a vote of confidence, and with the meeting of the central committee of Arafat, asking Arafat for genuine reform, and refusing to fall in line and to adopt this sort of party position on issues of reform, and among the public and civil society in the public at large, there is a growing momentum. However, every time Arafat is besieged, humiliated, targeted, the Palestinian people would rally the reform agenda would be set aside, and people enter a survival mode, and they feel that this is a matter of national pride.

So all our efforts at internal rectification and reform have been very badly effected by the increased violence, by the ongoing curfews, incursions, shellings and endless killings. This has become absolutely intolerable, and we are in need of serious intervention, positive intervention.

ZAHN: Of course earlier, again, the former prime minister defended what the Israelis are doing there. He said maybe they didn't pick the perfect message, but they certainly had to defend themselves and protect themselves from future attacks. But some day we will have to bring you on with Mr. Barak, so you two can debate each other.

ASHRAWI: I would love to do that.

ZAHN: Palestinian legislator Hanan Ashrawi, as always, thanks for dropping by.

ASHRAWI: Thank you, Paula.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired September 24, 2002 - 09:30   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The U.N. Security Council condemned Israel for its ongoing siege of Yasser Arafat in a resolution that was passed in the wee hours of this morning, while Israeli troops and attack helicopters entered Gaza City in two predawn raids killing nine Palestinians. Palestinian legislator Hanan Ashrawi joins us now from Washington.
Welcome back. Question for you, do you see any scenario where anybody inside the compound will be turned over to Israeli officials?

HANAN ASHRAWI, PALESTINIAN NEGOTIATOR: No, I don't, because this has been a long standing issue, and this is part of the agreement, that no Palestinians will be handed over to Israel, and if there are any people who have violated the law, they will be tried in accordance with Palestinian law.

Unfortunately, this has been another convenient pretext. All we say is we want people inside the compound, or we need people handed over to us. You must understand that there is no collaborative system in Palestine that will hand over Palestinians to the Israeli occupation.

However, anybody, as I said, who violates the law should be tried in accordance with Palestinians law.

ZAHN: Do you have any reason to believe that the men the Israelis describe as terrorists, who are trapped inside, have violated the law?

ASHRAWI: Well, we don't know whom they want. They don't know. This is a blatant fishing expedition. We're asking for a list of people inside the compound, knowing very well most of them are just people who work at the presidential headquarters, who are Arafat's aides, or assistants or personal guards. They have only two names, and these names they know are the names of the head of intelligence and head of 417 (ph). These are the two people who have been working with Arafat , who actually cooperated with them. According to Arafat, they even helped the Israelis prevent suicide bombings.

So this is another blatant pretext, and I don't think going down that road will solve anything.

ZAHN: Let me ask you this, if you don't believe Yasser Arafat will turn over any of the alleged terrorists to the Israelis, do you see a situation where he will, in fact, hand over names of those inside the compound? ASHRAWI: No, I don't because this is not a shopping list either. You don't hand over Palestinian people's names to the Israelis so they can start saying whom they want it arrest, or detain, or expel, or arrest or kill or whatever.

No, I think there are ways to solve this. Just lift the siege, not just on Arafat's compound, but on the Palestinian people, and to resume meaningful substantive negotiations in good faith. This is what hasn't happened since the beginning.

Any time of escalation, any type of targeting, scapegoating or punishing a whole nation would only aggravate the situation further, Paula.

ZAHN: Former Prime Minister Ehud Barak was on the air a little bit earlier this morning, and he said, the reason why Israeli troops are there is to stop the extremism. And he said, if Yasser Arafat wanted to, he could control the suicide bombers and the others who carry out attacks against Israelis. Your reaction?

I don't think that this is an accurate assessment. Maybe he could have done that earlier before Israel targeted Arafat, and trimmed his wings, so to speak, clipped his wings repeatedly and held him prisoner or hostage in his own headquarters, and before they targeted his security people.

Right now, the situation is extremely difficult, and by trying to target Arafat over and over again and find a scapegoat like that, they're allowing the situation to escalate, and they're actually feeding extremism. Because extremism on one side would encourage its counterpart on the other, and they're legitimizing the use of violence. I think both sides have to refrain from violence, and if you know people who violate the law, then there is such a thing as due process. And of course the people who claim responsibility for the latest bombings have nothing to do with the Authority. They are actually in the opposition.

ZAHN: There is a lot of speculation about just how much power Yasser Arafat has. There is recent report in "Time" magazine that talks about the Fatah counsel pretty much saying Arafat is being exposed to some mutiny on his own team. They are looking to create a position of prime minister that would sort of run the day-to-day business for the Palestinians. The role of president would be highly ceremonial, and that apparently is something Arafat is very opposed to. But the suggestion of this report is that he doesn't have that much support among the Fatah counsel. Is that true?

ASHRAWI: Well, there has been a growing movement for reform, for decentralization, for accountability, and this movement wish to speak with the vote of the legislative council or refusal to give the cabinet a vote of confidence, and with the meeting of the central committee of Arafat, asking Arafat for genuine reform, and refusing to fall in line and to adopt this sort of party position on issues of reform, and among the public and civil society in the public at large, there is a growing momentum. However, every time Arafat is besieged, humiliated, targeted, the Palestinian people would rally the reform agenda would be set aside, and people enter a survival mode, and they feel that this is a matter of national pride.

So all our efforts at internal rectification and reform have been very badly effected by the increased violence, by the ongoing curfews, incursions, shellings and endless killings. This has become absolutely intolerable, and we are in need of serious intervention, positive intervention.

ZAHN: Of course earlier, again, the former prime minister defended what the Israelis are doing there. He said maybe they didn't pick the perfect message, but they certainly had to defend themselves and protect themselves from future attacks. But some day we will have to bring you on with Mr. Barak, so you two can debate each other.

ASHRAWI: I would love to do that.

ZAHN: Palestinian legislator Hanan Ashrawi, as always, thanks for dropping by.

ASHRAWI: Thank you, Paula.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com