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American Morning
Interview with Rep. David Bonior (D), Rep. Jim McDermott (D)
Aired September 25, 2002 - 08:04 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The Bush administration continues pushing Congress and the United Nations today to approve resolutions on Iraq. Meanwhile, Iraq responded to British Prime Minister Tony Blair's speech yesterday, promising to give weapons inspectors unfettered access to go wherever they want.
Joining us now live from the White House, John King -- good morning, John.
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Paula.
The administration's campaign reaching overseas as well. The defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, as noted at the top of the program, in Warsaw, Poland. He's meeting with other NATO defense ministers. Secretary Rumsfeld said today that he is not yet at the point where he is asking any other country for support in a military campaign against Iraq.
But in closed door briefings today, the United States did lay out what it says is sensitive intelligence data showing more details of Iraq's programs, the weapons programs, chemical, biological and perhaps efforts to rebuild the nuclear program. Secretary Rumsfeld said that information should be helpful just in case he comes calling down the road looking for support.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We provided our allies with an intelligence briefing on the Iraqi threat that it poses to the world. The deputy director of Central Intelligence presented a detailed discussion of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs and its support for terrorists. Everyone is on notice. All now have a clear understanding of the threats that are posed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Saddam Hussein's government saying those weapons inspectors can come back in. The United Nations could send a delegation after some "discussions about practical arrangements."
Here at the Bush White House, they simply do not buy it. The president in a fundraising speech last night saying that if those inspectors are to go in, in his view, the United Nations must first adopt a tough new resolution putting Saddam Hussein on notice that military strikes could follow any interface with those inspectors. The president once again saying he wants to work with the United Nations, but also making clear if the United Nations does not pass a tough resolution, he has a backup plan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If the United Nations won't act, if they won't disarm Saddam Hussein, if they won't expose this liar for what he is, then the United States and other friends of ours around the world will do just that. We owe it to our children and we owe it to our children's children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Some complaints in Congress still about the broad language in the resolution authorizing the president to use force against Iraq. But there have been negotiations up on Capitol Hill. Administration sources and congressional sources say more work to be done, but they report steady progress -- Paula.
ZAHN: John, thanks so much.
And while President Bush wants Congress to quickly authorize the use of force against Iraq, two Democratic congressmen opposed to the president's request are on a mission of their own.
Washington Jim McDermott and Michigan's David Bonior are going to Baghdad. They leave for Baghdad tomorrow. They join us now from Washington.
Good morning, gentlemen. Glad to have both of you with us this morning.
REP. DAVID BONIOR (D), MICHIGAN: Good morning.
REP. JIM MCDERMOTT (D), WASHINGTON: Good morning.
ZAHN: Representative Bonior, you have now heard the president lay out his case against Iraq. The prime minister of Great Britain doing the same thing yesterday. Do you doubt the threat they say Saddam Hussein represents?
BONIOR: Well, there's no new material. What Tony Blair did in the House of Commons yesterday was repackaging the existing intelligence that we've had. And the question is whether we're going to allow this to play itself out, the inspectors to come in -- they're expected within two weeks to inspect -- and see where that may go or are we going to continue on the warpath?
I think letting the inspectors come in and have an unfettered look at what is there is the better approach. We also need to be conscious of the fact that the last war that we engaged in with Iraq, there were 500,000 children who prematurely died over the past 10 years as a result of that war. And part of our mission to Iraq is to look at the infrastructure and the health of the innocent Iraqi children and civilians who have suffered as a result of this war.
ZAHN: Representative McDermott, you've just heard what your colleague had to say about his faith in unfettered access to these weapons sites. And yet, if you picked up the "Wall Street Journal" yesterday, Richard Sperzel talked about folks ignoring the fine print in the Iraqi announcement about what the inspections would entail, that Iraq stipulated that inspectors had to respect the country's dignity, their sovereignty and territorial integrity, and that the U.N. had to apply the rules governing elimination of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction to Israel, as well.
MCDERMOTT: The issue here really is whether the United States can decide a leader that we want to take out and peremptorily go after him. What I am advocating is that we have the inspections. Nobody says that Saddam is a good person or honest or trustworthy or loyal or reverent. We are not saying any of that. But we do believe that there ought to be a process by which we go through the process of trying to disarm him.
Disarmament is really the issue, not regime change, here. The threat comes from arms, not from Saddam Hussein.
ZAHN: But Representative Bonior, David Kay (ph), who led some of the initial nuclear inspections in Iraq in the early '90s is calling this upcoming task mission impossible.
BONIOR: Well, let's see. What is the, what is there to risk in waiting two weeks to see just what kind of access is provided? There is no risk. And what the president and the administration is advocating right now in terms of a first preemption strike is very dangerous. We live in a very unstable world, probably as unstable in the 30 years that I've been in public life. I've never seen it more so. And it's a very dangerous time. We don't need another war in the Mideast if we can avoid it.
So let's use every possible means to avoid it.
ZAHN: But Representative Bonior, you no doubt note there are experts out there who say that they have relatively little faith that inspectors are going to be able to spot Iraqi cheating. How does that pose no risk?
BONIOR: Well, listen, there are people on both sides of this argument who are advocating different positions. Some say that they won't be able to detect. Others say that if you have unfettered access, you'll be able to have access to what you need to look at. I think we ought to be cautious. We ought to be prudent here. We don't need to be going headlong into war. There are very few of our allies who are supportive of our efforts to do this. I think it's not in our best interests to do it and I think we'd be wise to wait and see what happens with U.N. inspectors.
We don't need Saddam Hussein interfering with the U.N. inspectors and we don't need the United States interfering with the U.N. inspectors. They ought to be able to go in and see what they can do. It'll be very clear in a couple of weeks, several weeks, whether or not they have unfettered access or not. And then people will be able to make decisions after that based upon what is being exposed or what is being hidden. ZAHN: Would you support military action then, if it turns out that unfettered access is not provided and inspectors have reason to believe stuff is being moved or hidden?
BONIOR: No. I wouldn't support military action in this endeavor at all. I think there are another options here that are available to the international community to deal with Saddam Hussein. I don't believe in preemption. If we go to preemption with Saddam Hussein, what does that do with respect to Taiwan and China? Or Pakistan and India? Or North Korea and Korea? We are setting a very dangerous precedent and it seems to me that we ought to work as hard as we can to avoid that.
ZAHN: Representative McDermott, we've got 10 seconds left. What is the most, do you think, you will be able to accomplish on this trip?
MCDERMOTT: Well, we're going to look at the humane situation, all the people that died in the last war. I saw it in August of 1991. And we are going to inflict terrible problems on the Iraqi people and the children if we do this. So I'm interested in looking at that and making sure that the American people understand what the cost of war really is.
ZAHN: Gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it there this morning.
We really very much appreciate your dropping by in advance of your trip, Representatives McDermott and Bonior.
Thanks for your time this morning.
MCDERMOTT: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
(D)>
Aired September 25, 2002 - 08:04 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The Bush administration continues pushing Congress and the United Nations today to approve resolutions on Iraq. Meanwhile, Iraq responded to British Prime Minister Tony Blair's speech yesterday, promising to give weapons inspectors unfettered access to go wherever they want.
Joining us now live from the White House, John King -- good morning, John.
JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Paula.
The administration's campaign reaching overseas as well. The defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, as noted at the top of the program, in Warsaw, Poland. He's meeting with other NATO defense ministers. Secretary Rumsfeld said today that he is not yet at the point where he is asking any other country for support in a military campaign against Iraq.
But in closed door briefings today, the United States did lay out what it says is sensitive intelligence data showing more details of Iraq's programs, the weapons programs, chemical, biological and perhaps efforts to rebuild the nuclear program. Secretary Rumsfeld said that information should be helpful just in case he comes calling down the road looking for support.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: We provided our allies with an intelligence briefing on the Iraqi threat that it poses to the world. The deputy director of Central Intelligence presented a detailed discussion of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs and its support for terrorists. Everyone is on notice. All now have a clear understanding of the threats that are posed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Saddam Hussein's government saying those weapons inspectors can come back in. The United Nations could send a delegation after some "discussions about practical arrangements."
Here at the Bush White House, they simply do not buy it. The president in a fundraising speech last night saying that if those inspectors are to go in, in his view, the United Nations must first adopt a tough new resolution putting Saddam Hussein on notice that military strikes could follow any interface with those inspectors. The president once again saying he wants to work with the United Nations, but also making clear if the United Nations does not pass a tough resolution, he has a backup plan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If the United Nations won't act, if they won't disarm Saddam Hussein, if they won't expose this liar for what he is, then the United States and other friends of ours around the world will do just that. We owe it to our children and we owe it to our children's children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Some complaints in Congress still about the broad language in the resolution authorizing the president to use force against Iraq. But there have been negotiations up on Capitol Hill. Administration sources and congressional sources say more work to be done, but they report steady progress -- Paula.
ZAHN: John, thanks so much.
And while President Bush wants Congress to quickly authorize the use of force against Iraq, two Democratic congressmen opposed to the president's request are on a mission of their own.
Washington Jim McDermott and Michigan's David Bonior are going to Baghdad. They leave for Baghdad tomorrow. They join us now from Washington.
Good morning, gentlemen. Glad to have both of you with us this morning.
REP. DAVID BONIOR (D), MICHIGAN: Good morning.
REP. JIM MCDERMOTT (D), WASHINGTON: Good morning.
ZAHN: Representative Bonior, you have now heard the president lay out his case against Iraq. The prime minister of Great Britain doing the same thing yesterday. Do you doubt the threat they say Saddam Hussein represents?
BONIOR: Well, there's no new material. What Tony Blair did in the House of Commons yesterday was repackaging the existing intelligence that we've had. And the question is whether we're going to allow this to play itself out, the inspectors to come in -- they're expected within two weeks to inspect -- and see where that may go or are we going to continue on the warpath?
I think letting the inspectors come in and have an unfettered look at what is there is the better approach. We also need to be conscious of the fact that the last war that we engaged in with Iraq, there were 500,000 children who prematurely died over the past 10 years as a result of that war. And part of our mission to Iraq is to look at the infrastructure and the health of the innocent Iraqi children and civilians who have suffered as a result of this war.
ZAHN: Representative McDermott, you've just heard what your colleague had to say about his faith in unfettered access to these weapons sites. And yet, if you picked up the "Wall Street Journal" yesterday, Richard Sperzel talked about folks ignoring the fine print in the Iraqi announcement about what the inspections would entail, that Iraq stipulated that inspectors had to respect the country's dignity, their sovereignty and territorial integrity, and that the U.N. had to apply the rules governing elimination of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction to Israel, as well.
MCDERMOTT: The issue here really is whether the United States can decide a leader that we want to take out and peremptorily go after him. What I am advocating is that we have the inspections. Nobody says that Saddam is a good person or honest or trustworthy or loyal or reverent. We are not saying any of that. But we do believe that there ought to be a process by which we go through the process of trying to disarm him.
Disarmament is really the issue, not regime change, here. The threat comes from arms, not from Saddam Hussein.
ZAHN: But Representative Bonior, David Kay (ph), who led some of the initial nuclear inspections in Iraq in the early '90s is calling this upcoming task mission impossible.
BONIOR: Well, let's see. What is the, what is there to risk in waiting two weeks to see just what kind of access is provided? There is no risk. And what the president and the administration is advocating right now in terms of a first preemption strike is very dangerous. We live in a very unstable world, probably as unstable in the 30 years that I've been in public life. I've never seen it more so. And it's a very dangerous time. We don't need another war in the Mideast if we can avoid it.
So let's use every possible means to avoid it.
ZAHN: But Representative Bonior, you no doubt note there are experts out there who say that they have relatively little faith that inspectors are going to be able to spot Iraqi cheating. How does that pose no risk?
BONIOR: Well, listen, there are people on both sides of this argument who are advocating different positions. Some say that they won't be able to detect. Others say that if you have unfettered access, you'll be able to have access to what you need to look at. I think we ought to be cautious. We ought to be prudent here. We don't need to be going headlong into war. There are very few of our allies who are supportive of our efforts to do this. I think it's not in our best interests to do it and I think we'd be wise to wait and see what happens with U.N. inspectors.
We don't need Saddam Hussein interfering with the U.N. inspectors and we don't need the United States interfering with the U.N. inspectors. They ought to be able to go in and see what they can do. It'll be very clear in a couple of weeks, several weeks, whether or not they have unfettered access or not. And then people will be able to make decisions after that based upon what is being exposed or what is being hidden. ZAHN: Would you support military action then, if it turns out that unfettered access is not provided and inspectors have reason to believe stuff is being moved or hidden?
BONIOR: No. I wouldn't support military action in this endeavor at all. I think there are another options here that are available to the international community to deal with Saddam Hussein. I don't believe in preemption. If we go to preemption with Saddam Hussein, what does that do with respect to Taiwan and China? Or Pakistan and India? Or North Korea and Korea? We are setting a very dangerous precedent and it seems to me that we ought to work as hard as we can to avoid that.
ZAHN: Representative McDermott, we've got 10 seconds left. What is the most, do you think, you will be able to accomplish on this trip?
MCDERMOTT: Well, we're going to look at the humane situation, all the people that died in the last war. I saw it in August of 1991. And we are going to inflict terrible problems on the Iraqi people and the children if we do this. So I'm interested in looking at that and making sure that the American people understand what the cost of war really is.
ZAHN: Gentlemen, we're going to have to leave it there this morning.
We really very much appreciate your dropping by in advance of your trip, Representatives McDermott and Bonior.
Thanks for your time this morning.
MCDERMOTT: Thank you.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
(D)>
