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American Morning
Interview with Cliff May, Mark Melman
Aired September 26, 2002 - 07:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Back to the issue of Iraq, Iraq says American and British war planes have attacked a civilian airport, damaging some buildings and a radar system. No confirmation of that from U.S. Central Command. But the Pentagon has recently said that the focus of targets for planes enforcing the no fly zones has been broadened.
Now, that incident comes just days after British Prime Minister Tony Blair laid out his case against Iraq. And we are getting word that President Saddam Hussein is getting ready to respond.
Jane Arraf joins us now from Baghdad with the latest from there -- good morning, Jane.
JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula.
The Iraqi president met with his top advisers this morning and they're got a lot to talk about. He's sending his foreign minister, Naji Sabri, to Iran on Sunday, Iraq's traditional enemy, to try to shore up support from that regional heavyweight against a U.S. attack.
In a cabinet meeting last night, the cabinet said that they are formulating a response to those allegations of Iraq's continuing weapons programs and that they feel that when the weapons inspectors come -- and they're welcome to come -- that they will be vindicated.
As you mentioned, we're trying to get more information on reports of the airport in Basra attacked. Now, that is a civilian airport. That's used by permitted civilian flights. The airport in Baghdad tells us today that flights are going in their normally. The statement, though, says that the radar system was destroyed -- Paula.
ZAHN: Thank you, Jane. Appreciate the update.
Iraq is also the focus in Washington, where partisan bitterness simmering beneath the surface appears now to have boiled over, with Tom Daschle's outrage at the president's suggestion that national security is not a priority for the Democratic controlled Senate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Senate is more interested in special interests in Washington and not interested in the security of the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: The White House says the president's comments were taken out of context.
Joining us now to analyze the political warfare, from Washington, Cliff May, former RNC communications director, and Democratic pollster Mark Melman.
Welcome, gentlemen.
CLIFF MAY, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Thank you.
MARK MELMAN, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: Good morning, Paula.
ZAHN: We wanted to start off this morning by sharing with our audience how Tom Daschle returned fire.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. THOMAS DASCHLE (D-SD), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: The president is quoted in the "Washington Post" this morning as saying that Democratic, the Democratic controlled Senate is not interested in the security of the American people. Not interested in the security of the American people? That is outrageous. Outrageous. The president ought to apologize.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: So far the White House says it has no inclination to do so. The White House, gentlemen, says this all got twisted around, that the president was referring to homeland security. He was not referring to Iraq or a possible war with Iraq.
So what's at play here, Cliff?
MAY: Well, let me put it in a little context and try to untwist this. He was talking, indeed, about the homeland security bill, which in July passed the House with a bipartisan vote, a strong bipartisan vote. Since July, the Senate has dithered and delayed on this bill. And what Bush criticized was not Senate Democrats. He criticized the Senate -- and he didn't mean all senators and he didn't mean all Democrats. The homeland security bill was whose idea? It was Joseph Lieberman's. And Zel -- who is a Democrat, obviously. And Zel Miller, the senator from Georgia, also a Democrat, has been perhaps the strongest voice for a homeland security bill and some Republicans have been weak.
So when he criticized the Senate, he didn't mean all Democrats in the Senate. What he really meant was the guy who's in charge of the Senate, Senator Daschle. In that sense, this is not at all political. Maybe you can say it's personal. It was a criticism of Daschle, who's the head of the Senate, the buck stops there, for not getting the homeland security bill done.
ZAHN: Mark, not at all political? Personal?
MELMAN: Well, I think Cliff is sort of reaching here. The president spoke in his own words. He didn't say what Cliff said he said. He said Senate Democrats don't...
MAY: He did not.
MELMAN: That's not true.
MAY: He did not.
MELMAN: He said Senate Democrats don't care about the security of this country.
MAY: He did not. He did not.
MELMAN: And for the president to say that the Democrats...
MAY: Put it on the air.
MELMAN: ... who have lost limbs and won medals don't care about the security of this country, is truly outrageous.
ZAHN: OK, Mark, Mark, you know what? Before you go any further, let's, you just heard what the president had to say. And just for the sake of the debate, the exact words he used is "the Senate is more interested in special interests in Washington" --
MAY: That's what he said...
ZAHN: ... and not interested in the security of American people.
MELMAN: Paula, Paula, that's what he said after Senator Daschle's comments.
MAY: No, no.
MELMAN: What he said five times before Senator Daschle's comments...
MAY: No, no, no.
MELMAN: ... according to yesterday's "Washington Post," was that the Democratic controlled Senate is not interested in the security of the American people.
MAY: That's the way it was interpreted by the reporter. That's not what he said. And he wouldn't be interested...
MELMAN: Cliff, the reporter actually saw it. I don't think you did.
MAY: Look, let's be clear. Let's be clear about it. No, we saw it on tape. Let's be clear about this. In the Senate, Senator Lieberman, a Democrat, has been the driving force behind homeland security.
MELMAN: Exactly right. Democrats...
MAY: Zel Miller wants a strong bill. MELMAN: The Democrats were the people...
MAY: This is not we...
MELMAN: ... who set up the idea of the homeland security department.
MAY: Also, let me answer...
MELMAN: You're right about that, Cliff.
MAY: And...
ZAHN: Gentlemen, gentlemen, one at a time here.
MAY: And the president specifically...
ZAHN: Cliff, finish your thought and then it's Mark's turn.
MAY: Look, the president specifically on several occasions, including the day before yesterday, praised Democrats, including those in the Senate who are strong on homeland security and on a resolution giving him the authorization he wants for Iraq. Specifically he talked about Democrats in that regard.
ZAHN: OK, Mark. Go ahead.
MELMAN: The president has criticized Democrats. He's politicized the war. This is a presentation by Karl Rove I got off the CNN Web site, the president's chief political adviser. What's the first thing it says under Republican strategy? Focus on the war. Focus on the war. You can't go out and have the vice president say elect Republicans because it'll improve national security, which he said. You can't go out and have the president say Democrats don't care about national security and at the same time say we're not politicizing this war effort.
MAY: Mark...
MELMAN: That's really trying to have it both ways.
MAY: Mark, let...
MELMAN: It's not legitimate.
MAY: Let me say this, Mark...
ZAHN: But, aren't, isn't it true, Cliff, that both sides are doing this? You had Al Gore coming out and unleashing a volley of stuff, anti-Bush administration policy. And you've got the Republicans doing the same thing. Aren't both parties guilty of politicizing a potential war with Iraq?
MAY: Yes. I think you can, I think, Paula, you are right, that both parties are. I think Mark and Daschle are right that they shouldn't. But it's not true that President Bush has done this. Others have done it and it's not a good idea. President Bush has been careful not to do it. If you want to talk about who else has done it, Senator Bob Byrd, a Democrat, said the following. I think this is very political. "Bush wants a war only till election day." That's a terrible slander.
In yesterday's "Washington Post," Michael Kelly, no Republican, a columnist for the "Washington Post," piece on Al Gore's speech, look who's playing politics.
Look, political people are going to play politics. The president should stay away from it. He did. He criticized the head of the Senate and I think Daschle has taken umbrage. Let him get this bill through. Let him get the resolution through...
ZAHN: Gentlemen, I'm just going to cut you off, because we need to take a live picture in from the Ivory Coast, where that C-130 is about ready to take off with those dozens of schoolchildren who were rescued after being caught in the crossfire of a civil war.
(INTERRUPTED FOR BREAKING NEWS)
ZAHN: I want to get back to both Mark and Cliff now for some closing thoughts on where you think the politicization of this war is going to take the debate.
MELMAN: Well, I think it's very clear, there can be and there ought to be a legitimate debate about our policy with respect to the war on terrorism. And people have a right, whether it's Al Gore or Tom Daschle, Bob Burton, to participate in that debate.
There's a difference between debating the substance of the issues on the one hand and going out and saying Democrats don't care about security, you've got to elect Republicans in order to promote the national security. That is a scandal and it's particularly a scandal when it's directed against people who have won medals and lost limbs in the defense of this country.
MAY: And it would be except it's not at all what President Bush said. I agree with Mark. I wish right now we were debating the homeland security bill or the resolutions instead of debating the politics of it. What people should do is look at the candidates and see who takes the right view, their view, on the war with Iraq, on the war with terrorism, on homeland security.
I'm not going to tell you the Republicans have all the best ideas. I'm not going to tell you the Republicans are necessarily stronger on some of these issues. I take the point of view this war has to be fought very comprehensively and we have to win this war.
Overall, are Republicans somewhat stronger on that? Yes. But not in every case. There are Democrats who are better.
ZAHN: All right, gentlemen, we're going to say good-bye to both of you as we go back to this picture, as we see this C-130 take off.
Appreciate your time this morning. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired September 26, 2002 - 07:32 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Back to the issue of Iraq, Iraq says American and British war planes have attacked a civilian airport, damaging some buildings and a radar system. No confirmation of that from U.S. Central Command. But the Pentagon has recently said that the focus of targets for planes enforcing the no fly zones has been broadened.
Now, that incident comes just days after British Prime Minister Tony Blair laid out his case against Iraq. And we are getting word that President Saddam Hussein is getting ready to respond.
Jane Arraf joins us now from Baghdad with the latest from there -- good morning, Jane.
JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Paula.
The Iraqi president met with his top advisers this morning and they're got a lot to talk about. He's sending his foreign minister, Naji Sabri, to Iran on Sunday, Iraq's traditional enemy, to try to shore up support from that regional heavyweight against a U.S. attack.
In a cabinet meeting last night, the cabinet said that they are formulating a response to those allegations of Iraq's continuing weapons programs and that they feel that when the weapons inspectors come -- and they're welcome to come -- that they will be vindicated.
As you mentioned, we're trying to get more information on reports of the airport in Basra attacked. Now, that is a civilian airport. That's used by permitted civilian flights. The airport in Baghdad tells us today that flights are going in their normally. The statement, though, says that the radar system was destroyed -- Paula.
ZAHN: Thank you, Jane. Appreciate the update.
Iraq is also the focus in Washington, where partisan bitterness simmering beneath the surface appears now to have boiled over, with Tom Daschle's outrage at the president's suggestion that national security is not a priority for the Democratic controlled Senate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Senate is more interested in special interests in Washington and not interested in the security of the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: The White House says the president's comments were taken out of context.
Joining us now to analyze the political warfare, from Washington, Cliff May, former RNC communications director, and Democratic pollster Mark Melman.
Welcome, gentlemen.
CLIFF MAY, FORMER RNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Thank you.
MARK MELMAN, DEMOCRATIC POLLSTER: Good morning, Paula.
ZAHN: We wanted to start off this morning by sharing with our audience how Tom Daschle returned fire.
Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. THOMAS DASCHLE (D-SD), SENATE MAJORITY LEADER: The president is quoted in the "Washington Post" this morning as saying that Democratic, the Democratic controlled Senate is not interested in the security of the American people. Not interested in the security of the American people? That is outrageous. Outrageous. The president ought to apologize.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: So far the White House says it has no inclination to do so. The White House, gentlemen, says this all got twisted around, that the president was referring to homeland security. He was not referring to Iraq or a possible war with Iraq.
So what's at play here, Cliff?
MAY: Well, let me put it in a little context and try to untwist this. He was talking, indeed, about the homeland security bill, which in July passed the House with a bipartisan vote, a strong bipartisan vote. Since July, the Senate has dithered and delayed on this bill. And what Bush criticized was not Senate Democrats. He criticized the Senate -- and he didn't mean all senators and he didn't mean all Democrats. The homeland security bill was whose idea? It was Joseph Lieberman's. And Zel -- who is a Democrat, obviously. And Zel Miller, the senator from Georgia, also a Democrat, has been perhaps the strongest voice for a homeland security bill and some Republicans have been weak.
So when he criticized the Senate, he didn't mean all Democrats in the Senate. What he really meant was the guy who's in charge of the Senate, Senator Daschle. In that sense, this is not at all political. Maybe you can say it's personal. It was a criticism of Daschle, who's the head of the Senate, the buck stops there, for not getting the homeland security bill done.
ZAHN: Mark, not at all political? Personal?
MELMAN: Well, I think Cliff is sort of reaching here. The president spoke in his own words. He didn't say what Cliff said he said. He said Senate Democrats don't...
MAY: He did not.
MELMAN: That's not true.
MAY: He did not.
MELMAN: He said Senate Democrats don't care about the security of this country.
MAY: He did not. He did not.
MELMAN: And for the president to say that the Democrats...
MAY: Put it on the air.
MELMAN: ... who have lost limbs and won medals don't care about the security of this country, is truly outrageous.
ZAHN: OK, Mark, Mark, you know what? Before you go any further, let's, you just heard what the president had to say. And just for the sake of the debate, the exact words he used is "the Senate is more interested in special interests in Washington" --
MAY: That's what he said...
ZAHN: ... and not interested in the security of American people.
MELMAN: Paula, Paula, that's what he said after Senator Daschle's comments.
MAY: No, no.
MELMAN: What he said five times before Senator Daschle's comments...
MAY: No, no, no.
MELMAN: ... according to yesterday's "Washington Post," was that the Democratic controlled Senate is not interested in the security of the American people.
MAY: That's the way it was interpreted by the reporter. That's not what he said. And he wouldn't be interested...
MELMAN: Cliff, the reporter actually saw it. I don't think you did.
MAY: Look, let's be clear. Let's be clear about it. No, we saw it on tape. Let's be clear about this. In the Senate, Senator Lieberman, a Democrat, has been the driving force behind homeland security.
MELMAN: Exactly right. Democrats...
MAY: Zel Miller wants a strong bill. MELMAN: The Democrats were the people...
MAY: This is not we...
MELMAN: ... who set up the idea of the homeland security department.
MAY: Also, let me answer...
MELMAN: You're right about that, Cliff.
MAY: And...
ZAHN: Gentlemen, gentlemen, one at a time here.
MAY: And the president specifically...
ZAHN: Cliff, finish your thought and then it's Mark's turn.
MAY: Look, the president specifically on several occasions, including the day before yesterday, praised Democrats, including those in the Senate who are strong on homeland security and on a resolution giving him the authorization he wants for Iraq. Specifically he talked about Democrats in that regard.
ZAHN: OK, Mark. Go ahead.
MELMAN: The president has criticized Democrats. He's politicized the war. This is a presentation by Karl Rove I got off the CNN Web site, the president's chief political adviser. What's the first thing it says under Republican strategy? Focus on the war. Focus on the war. You can't go out and have the vice president say elect Republicans because it'll improve national security, which he said. You can't go out and have the president say Democrats don't care about national security and at the same time say we're not politicizing this war effort.
MAY: Mark...
MELMAN: That's really trying to have it both ways.
MAY: Mark, let...
MELMAN: It's not legitimate.
MAY: Let me say this, Mark...
ZAHN: But, aren't, isn't it true, Cliff, that both sides are doing this? You had Al Gore coming out and unleashing a volley of stuff, anti-Bush administration policy. And you've got the Republicans doing the same thing. Aren't both parties guilty of politicizing a potential war with Iraq?
MAY: Yes. I think you can, I think, Paula, you are right, that both parties are. I think Mark and Daschle are right that they shouldn't. But it's not true that President Bush has done this. Others have done it and it's not a good idea. President Bush has been careful not to do it. If you want to talk about who else has done it, Senator Bob Byrd, a Democrat, said the following. I think this is very political. "Bush wants a war only till election day." That's a terrible slander.
In yesterday's "Washington Post," Michael Kelly, no Republican, a columnist for the "Washington Post," piece on Al Gore's speech, look who's playing politics.
Look, political people are going to play politics. The president should stay away from it. He did. He criticized the head of the Senate and I think Daschle has taken umbrage. Let him get this bill through. Let him get the resolution through...
ZAHN: Gentlemen, I'm just going to cut you off, because we need to take a live picture in from the Ivory Coast, where that C-130 is about ready to take off with those dozens of schoolchildren who were rescued after being caught in the crossfire of a civil war.
(INTERRUPTED FOR BREAKING NEWS)
ZAHN: I want to get back to both Mark and Cliff now for some closing thoughts on where you think the politicization of this war is going to take the debate.
MELMAN: Well, I think it's very clear, there can be and there ought to be a legitimate debate about our policy with respect to the war on terrorism. And people have a right, whether it's Al Gore or Tom Daschle, Bob Burton, to participate in that debate.
There's a difference between debating the substance of the issues on the one hand and going out and saying Democrats don't care about security, you've got to elect Republicans in order to promote the national security. That is a scandal and it's particularly a scandal when it's directed against people who have won medals and lost limbs in the defense of this country.
MAY: And it would be except it's not at all what President Bush said. I agree with Mark. I wish right now we were debating the homeland security bill or the resolutions instead of debating the politics of it. What people should do is look at the candidates and see who takes the right view, their view, on the war with Iraq, on the war with terrorism, on homeland security.
I'm not going to tell you the Republicans have all the best ideas. I'm not going to tell you the Republicans are necessarily stronger on some of these issues. I take the point of view this war has to be fought very comprehensively and we have to win this war.
Overall, are Republicans somewhat stronger on that? Yes. But not in every case. There are Democrats who are better.
ZAHN: All right, gentlemen, we're going to say good-bye to both of you as we go back to this picture, as we see this C-130 take off.
Appreciate your time this morning. TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
