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American Morning

Pentagon Releases Video of Iraqi Hostile Fire

Aired October 01, 2002 - 07:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Back to the issue of Iraq. Iraqi cooperation, don't buy it, says Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Iraq said two weeks ago that weapons inspectors may come back. But since then Rumsfeld says Iraq has tried to shoot down U.S. and British aircraft 67 times and the Pentagon has released video going back years showing what it calls hostile fire from Iraq.
Joining us now to talk more about the just released Pentagon video and the undeclared air war in the no fly zones over Iraq, CNN military analyst and former supreme NATO commander, Retired General Wesley Clark.

He joins us from Little Rock, Arkansas this morning.

Welcome back, sir.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST, FORMER NATO SUPREME COMMANDER: Thanks, Paula.

ZAHN: Secretary Rumsfeld and General Myers also outlined some statistics, saying in all so far this year Iraq has fired at coalition jets some 406 times. When you look at this tape, how much does it bolster the case to go into Iraq?

CLARK: Well, Paula, I'm not sure that it bolsters the case at all. I think it does get more facts out on the table. We've been flying these missions over the no fly zone for more than a decade. Since the December 28 incident in the northern no fly zone where the northern team unloaded ordinance on Iraq, we've been dropping ordinance fairly consistently. And they have been illuminating our aircraft and attempting to shoot them down.

So I'm not sure that there's really any additional information here, except that as I look at the statistics, it seems to be that the degree of conflict is a little more intense now. They're shooting at us more often. They still haven't hit an aircraft. They've tried everything in the world to take down one of our aircraft and get a pilot captured. I'm not sure this bolsters the case, but it does show that they do still have an active air defense system and they are still resisting the U.S. over flights.

ZAHN: So the Pentagon admitted yesterday that it has stepped up these air strikes against Iraq in response to the Iraqis continuing to fire at allied aircraft, but says its more aggressive attacks are not designed to soften Iraqi air defenses in preparation for an invasion.

What do you think? CLARK: I think it's both true and false. I think they probably are not designed to strike at the heart of the Iraqi air defense system. They're designed to retaliate against the increasingly aggressive Iraqi defensive tactics. But I think the impact of them will be to soften the Iraqi defense system because every time we take down a command and control node or a radar or a surface to air missile launcher, that's one less that he has to use against us when and if we do go to war there.

ZAHN: The Russian foreign minister not too happy about any of this action, saying basically it muddies the water as meetings are being held in Vienna to try to get inspectors back into Iraq.

Does he have a point?

CLARK: Well, he does have a point in a way, in that it does keep a certain amount of pressure and tension in the international community. But on the other hand, what we know about Saddam Hussein is he only responds to the threat of force. And so if you ever took the threat of force off the table or the evidence of it -- so if you declined in this air campaign at this point prior to his concessions, he's not going to concede anything.

ZAHN: So talk a little bit about what you think is going on behind the scenes, Donald Rumsfeld and the showing of this tape. Do you see it as simply a P.R. move, then? I know you said this has been going on for a long time and we haven't heard a whole lot or learned a whole lot new from it.

CLARK: Well, I think the administration, I think the people behind this administration decided a long time ago to go after Iraq. It was part of the axis of evil speech. As I recall, it was even discussed before that, even before 9/11. It's been a sort of a cause among many in the neo-conservative movement. It's the first of a number of states which have been looked at as causing problems, including Iran in the region, and Syria.

And so I think 9/11 provided the impetus to go after this and I think what you've seen is a variety of reasons offered by the administration and a variety of evidence as to why it's a good idea to go after Iraq. And I think what we have to look at this tape is it is information. People have been asking for more information. They've been asking what is exactly going on here.

And so on the one hand this is simply a response to the information. On the other hand, it is an attempt to bolster the case for going after Iraq.

ZAHN: I know you have some very strong concerns about the U.S. potentially going it alone. But let's assume for a moment, you know, there is an indication at the White House they may be willing to compromise in some of the language, not only in the congressional resolution, but on some of the U.N. resolutions. If that happens, would that raise your comfort level about going into Iraq, let's say, if the inspection process unfolded, they weren't allowed unfettered access and then the next step? CLARK: Yes, it would raise. It would ease some concerns, Paula. But I think what's fundamental here for the American people to understand is this is about a lot more than Iraq. As the president has said, this is the first step in implementing this new doctrine of preemption or U.S. dominance in the world.

And so I think you could justify going after Iraq in any number of ways. But can you justify a doctrine of U.S. dominance in which we're going to attack countries or go into countries not simply because they're about to attack us, but because they might someday get the weapons or might someday pose a threat?

And I think the doctrine of preemption really hasn't received the amount of public discussion that is deserves. So I think there are two separate issues here and what concerns me is the linkage of the two. Iraq is a problem. Iraq should have complied with the United Nations a long time ago. On the other hand, if you say that going after Iraq proves that the doctrine of preemption works and that it's the first step and those guys in Iran had better get the message or we'll be there next, or Syria or something like this, then I think it takes on a whole different color and I think this is why so many Europeans and elsewhere, and some in the Democratic Party, are so concerned about what they see as this move toward unilateral U.S. action.

ZAHN: As always, good to see you.

CNN military analyst General Wesley Clark.

You know what, General? If you weren't in Little Rock, you wouldn't have to get up so early. So why don't you come to New York some time and sit on the brand new sofa with us?

CLARK: I'll be there this weekend, Paula.

ZAHN: Thanks, General.

CLARK: Thanks.

ZAHN: Take care.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired October 1, 2002 - 07:32   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Back to the issue of Iraq. Iraqi cooperation, don't buy it, says Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Iraq said two weeks ago that weapons inspectors may come back. But since then Rumsfeld says Iraq has tried to shoot down U.S. and British aircraft 67 times and the Pentagon has released video going back years showing what it calls hostile fire from Iraq.
Joining us now to talk more about the just released Pentagon video and the undeclared air war in the no fly zones over Iraq, CNN military analyst and former supreme NATO commander, Retired General Wesley Clark.

He joins us from Little Rock, Arkansas this morning.

Welcome back, sir.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST, FORMER NATO SUPREME COMMANDER: Thanks, Paula.

ZAHN: Secretary Rumsfeld and General Myers also outlined some statistics, saying in all so far this year Iraq has fired at coalition jets some 406 times. When you look at this tape, how much does it bolster the case to go into Iraq?

CLARK: Well, Paula, I'm not sure that it bolsters the case at all. I think it does get more facts out on the table. We've been flying these missions over the no fly zone for more than a decade. Since the December 28 incident in the northern no fly zone where the northern team unloaded ordinance on Iraq, we've been dropping ordinance fairly consistently. And they have been illuminating our aircraft and attempting to shoot them down.

So I'm not sure that there's really any additional information here, except that as I look at the statistics, it seems to be that the degree of conflict is a little more intense now. They're shooting at us more often. They still haven't hit an aircraft. They've tried everything in the world to take down one of our aircraft and get a pilot captured. I'm not sure this bolsters the case, but it does show that they do still have an active air defense system and they are still resisting the U.S. over flights.

ZAHN: So the Pentagon admitted yesterday that it has stepped up these air strikes against Iraq in response to the Iraqis continuing to fire at allied aircraft, but says its more aggressive attacks are not designed to soften Iraqi air defenses in preparation for an invasion.

What do you think? CLARK: I think it's both true and false. I think they probably are not designed to strike at the heart of the Iraqi air defense system. They're designed to retaliate against the increasingly aggressive Iraqi defensive tactics. But I think the impact of them will be to soften the Iraqi defense system because every time we take down a command and control node or a radar or a surface to air missile launcher, that's one less that he has to use against us when and if we do go to war there.

ZAHN: The Russian foreign minister not too happy about any of this action, saying basically it muddies the water as meetings are being held in Vienna to try to get inspectors back into Iraq.

Does he have a point?

CLARK: Well, he does have a point in a way, in that it does keep a certain amount of pressure and tension in the international community. But on the other hand, what we know about Saddam Hussein is he only responds to the threat of force. And so if you ever took the threat of force off the table or the evidence of it -- so if you declined in this air campaign at this point prior to his concessions, he's not going to concede anything.

ZAHN: So talk a little bit about what you think is going on behind the scenes, Donald Rumsfeld and the showing of this tape. Do you see it as simply a P.R. move, then? I know you said this has been going on for a long time and we haven't heard a whole lot or learned a whole lot new from it.

CLARK: Well, I think the administration, I think the people behind this administration decided a long time ago to go after Iraq. It was part of the axis of evil speech. As I recall, it was even discussed before that, even before 9/11. It's been a sort of a cause among many in the neo-conservative movement. It's the first of a number of states which have been looked at as causing problems, including Iran in the region, and Syria.

And so I think 9/11 provided the impetus to go after this and I think what you've seen is a variety of reasons offered by the administration and a variety of evidence as to why it's a good idea to go after Iraq. And I think what we have to look at this tape is it is information. People have been asking for more information. They've been asking what is exactly going on here.

And so on the one hand this is simply a response to the information. On the other hand, it is an attempt to bolster the case for going after Iraq.

ZAHN: I know you have some very strong concerns about the U.S. potentially going it alone. But let's assume for a moment, you know, there is an indication at the White House they may be willing to compromise in some of the language, not only in the congressional resolution, but on some of the U.N. resolutions. If that happens, would that raise your comfort level about going into Iraq, let's say, if the inspection process unfolded, they weren't allowed unfettered access and then the next step? CLARK: Yes, it would raise. It would ease some concerns, Paula. But I think what's fundamental here for the American people to understand is this is about a lot more than Iraq. As the president has said, this is the first step in implementing this new doctrine of preemption or U.S. dominance in the world.

And so I think you could justify going after Iraq in any number of ways. But can you justify a doctrine of U.S. dominance in which we're going to attack countries or go into countries not simply because they're about to attack us, but because they might someday get the weapons or might someday pose a threat?

And I think the doctrine of preemption really hasn't received the amount of public discussion that is deserves. So I think there are two separate issues here and what concerns me is the linkage of the two. Iraq is a problem. Iraq should have complied with the United Nations a long time ago. On the other hand, if you say that going after Iraq proves that the doctrine of preemption works and that it's the first step and those guys in Iran had better get the message or we'll be there next, or Syria or something like this, then I think it takes on a whole different color and I think this is why so many Europeans and elsewhere, and some in the Democratic Party, are so concerned about what they see as this move toward unilateral U.S. action.

ZAHN: As always, good to see you.

CNN military analyst General Wesley Clark.

You know what, General? If you weren't in Little Rock, you wouldn't have to get up so early. So why don't you come to New York some time and sit on the brand new sofa with us?

CLARK: I'll be there this weekend, Paula.

ZAHN: Thanks, General.

CLARK: Thanks.

ZAHN: Take care.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com