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American Morning

Interview With Richard Shelby

Aired October 09, 2002 - 07:07   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The FBI has been accused of sleeping on the job and missing many clues before 9/11.
But yesterday, former FBI Director Louis Freeh tried to turn the blame from the bureau onto lawmakers. He said Congress had tied his hands in the fight against terror by not giving the FBI enough money or people.

So who is right?

Joining us from Washington is Senator Richard Shelby, the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Welcome back -- good to have you with us this morning.

SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R), ALABAMA: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: So, Senator, I wanted to quickly replay a little bit of Louis Freeh's defense yesterday, where he denied the fact that his department was not focused on domestic terrorism -- let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOUIS FREEH, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: The FBI was focused both on preventing domestic and foreign terrorist attacks, and I take exception to the finding that we were not sufficiently paying attention to terrorism at home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: And then, he shifted that criticism back to Congress, saying that he asked for a lot of funding for people and resources, and Congress didn't give him what he wanted. Is Congress to blame here?

SHELBY: I think you have to put it in the context of what really went on then. As far as the FBI being focused on domestic terrorism, that's not true. As a matter of fact, I asked Director Freeh about it yesterday. What he said is directly contrary to what his counterterrorism chief, Dale Watson, told the staff and told us several times.

He said, that is Mr. Watson, told us that the FBI's information in the summer of 2001 was that there was going to be an attack overseas. That's very -- the very opposite of what Director Freeh was saying. What Director Freeh was really telling us yesterday was that everything was OK on his watch, but it wasn't. On his watch starting in '93 and ending I believe in June of 2001, that's when most of the terrorist attacks occurred in the U.S. and around the world, except the events of September the 11th. He was defending his record, and I don't think he can defend it everywhere, and I don't think he did that good a job yesterday.

As far as resources, it's true that the FBI, the CIA, everybody, they never got all of the resources; in other words, all of the money that they asked for. That's a fact. A lot of it came from the administration; that is, some of the opposition. Some of it came from the Congress.

But several of us on the Intelligence Committee, including Senator Graham who is now the chairman of the committee, and I, we pushed for years, for seven or eight years, to fund the FBI, to fund the CIA, and all of the other agencies, and fund them properly. But there was a lot of opposition here in the Congress.

ZAHN: Well, let me ask you this. The point he made yesterday that was at one part of his career at the FBI, he asked for 1,895 additional agents, and Congress essentially gave him 76.

SHELBY: Well, I don't know the...

ZAHN: Is that what hurt his ability?

SHELBY: Well, sure, it could. But all of their problems that they have at the FBI are not just money problems. Some of it is technology; the lack of modern computers to deal with. But a lot of it, at the end of the debate, you will see had to do with personal judgments. You know, the Phoenix Memo. That had nothing to do -- the failure to act upon that with a lack of resources. The Moussaoui case, not lack of resources, but probably a lack of common sense.

ZAHN: And in Mr. Freeh's defense I guess, he said, analyzing intelligence information would be like trying to take a sip of water coming out of a fire hydrant. The reality is that these unquestionably important bits have been plucked from a sea of thousands and thousands of such bits at the time.

SHELBY: But he's right to a point, but that's exactly what we're going to have to do, is get a little bit here and a little bit there and make the whole. And that's why we need a fusion center for all intelligence if we're going to win this war on terrorism.

ZAHN: Senator, you also said what you heard from Louis Freeh is the direct opposite of what you heard from Mr. Watson. Are you suggesting that he is lying or attempting to cover his derriere here?

SHELBY: Well, I think he's defending his turf, and I'm not sure he was familiar with what Mr. Watson testified to the week before and what his other statements were, but he should have been.

Mr. Freeh is a good man, but I want to go back to -- the facts are the facts. A lot of bad things happened or failed to happen on Mr. Freeh's watch when he was director of the FBI. A lot of good things happened, too, but we should not ignore the mistakes and the failures.

ZAHN: Final question for you this morning. The head of the CIA, George Tenet, through a letter I guess, has warned Congress that he believes that if Iraq is struck by America preemptively, he is -- and I'm going to use his direct words here -- quote -- "pretty high in his view that Saddam Hussein would use chemical and biological weapons."

SHELBY: Well, he could, because he would be backed up against the wall. But we had that argument in 1991, and it didn't happen. Of course, the circumstances are a little different now.

But I think, Paula, we have to do what -- at the end of the debate and after we've concluded everything, are we going to have to use force? If we are, we've got to use it, and I believe we will be successful in doing it. We can't just let him hold us at bay, and he would if he could.

ZAHN: Senator Richard Shelby, as always, glad to have your perspective.

SHELBY: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: Thanks for dropping by.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired October 9, 2002 - 07:07   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The FBI has been accused of sleeping on the job and missing many clues before 9/11.
But yesterday, former FBI Director Louis Freeh tried to turn the blame from the bureau onto lawmakers. He said Congress had tied his hands in the fight against terror by not giving the FBI enough money or people.

So who is right?

Joining us from Washington is Senator Richard Shelby, the chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Welcome back -- good to have you with us this morning.

SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R), ALABAMA: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: So, Senator, I wanted to quickly replay a little bit of Louis Freeh's defense yesterday, where he denied the fact that his department was not focused on domestic terrorism -- let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LOUIS FREEH, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: The FBI was focused both on preventing domestic and foreign terrorist attacks, and I take exception to the finding that we were not sufficiently paying attention to terrorism at home.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: And then, he shifted that criticism back to Congress, saying that he asked for a lot of funding for people and resources, and Congress didn't give him what he wanted. Is Congress to blame here?

SHELBY: I think you have to put it in the context of what really went on then. As far as the FBI being focused on domestic terrorism, that's not true. As a matter of fact, I asked Director Freeh about it yesterday. What he said is directly contrary to what his counterterrorism chief, Dale Watson, told the staff and told us several times.

He said, that is Mr. Watson, told us that the FBI's information in the summer of 2001 was that there was going to be an attack overseas. That's very -- the very opposite of what Director Freeh was saying. What Director Freeh was really telling us yesterday was that everything was OK on his watch, but it wasn't. On his watch starting in '93 and ending I believe in June of 2001, that's when most of the terrorist attacks occurred in the U.S. and around the world, except the events of September the 11th. He was defending his record, and I don't think he can defend it everywhere, and I don't think he did that good a job yesterday.

As far as resources, it's true that the FBI, the CIA, everybody, they never got all of the resources; in other words, all of the money that they asked for. That's a fact. A lot of it came from the administration; that is, some of the opposition. Some of it came from the Congress.

But several of us on the Intelligence Committee, including Senator Graham who is now the chairman of the committee, and I, we pushed for years, for seven or eight years, to fund the FBI, to fund the CIA, and all of the other agencies, and fund them properly. But there was a lot of opposition here in the Congress.

ZAHN: Well, let me ask you this. The point he made yesterday that was at one part of his career at the FBI, he asked for 1,895 additional agents, and Congress essentially gave him 76.

SHELBY: Well, I don't know the...

ZAHN: Is that what hurt his ability?

SHELBY: Well, sure, it could. But all of their problems that they have at the FBI are not just money problems. Some of it is technology; the lack of modern computers to deal with. But a lot of it, at the end of the debate, you will see had to do with personal judgments. You know, the Phoenix Memo. That had nothing to do -- the failure to act upon that with a lack of resources. The Moussaoui case, not lack of resources, but probably a lack of common sense.

ZAHN: And in Mr. Freeh's defense I guess, he said, analyzing intelligence information would be like trying to take a sip of water coming out of a fire hydrant. The reality is that these unquestionably important bits have been plucked from a sea of thousands and thousands of such bits at the time.

SHELBY: But he's right to a point, but that's exactly what we're going to have to do, is get a little bit here and a little bit there and make the whole. And that's why we need a fusion center for all intelligence if we're going to win this war on terrorism.

ZAHN: Senator, you also said what you heard from Louis Freeh is the direct opposite of what you heard from Mr. Watson. Are you suggesting that he is lying or attempting to cover his derriere here?

SHELBY: Well, I think he's defending his turf, and I'm not sure he was familiar with what Mr. Watson testified to the week before and what his other statements were, but he should have been.

Mr. Freeh is a good man, but I want to go back to -- the facts are the facts. A lot of bad things happened or failed to happen on Mr. Freeh's watch when he was director of the FBI. A lot of good things happened, too, but we should not ignore the mistakes and the failures.

ZAHN: Final question for you this morning. The head of the CIA, George Tenet, through a letter I guess, has warned Congress that he believes that if Iraq is struck by America preemptively, he is -- and I'm going to use his direct words here -- quote -- "pretty high in his view that Saddam Hussein would use chemical and biological weapons."

SHELBY: Well, he could, because he would be backed up against the wall. But we had that argument in 1991, and it didn't happen. Of course, the circumstances are a little different now.

But I think, Paula, we have to do what -- at the end of the debate and after we've concluded everything, are we going to have to use force? If we are, we've got to use it, and I believe we will be successful in doing it. We can't just let him hold us at bay, and he would if he could.

ZAHN: Senator Richard Shelby, as always, glad to have your perspective.

SHELBY: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: Thanks for dropping by.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.