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American Morning

Charges Against Arnaout Could be Significant

Aired October 10, 2002 - 09:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, a Chicago man faces charges that he raised and laundered money for al Qaeda. Enaam Arnaout, shown here in a photo released by the U.S. government, is alleged to have been present at the founding of al Qaeda. In fact, investigators say he is connected to al Qaeda's leadership, including Osama bin Laden.
Joining us now from Washington with more on this story, CNN Terrorism Analyst Peter Bergen -- good morning, Peter.

How significant is this arrest?

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: This arrest could be significant if this guy is really somebody who was there at the founding of al Qaeda. Reading the indictment, there are links in the indictment to Osama bin Laden in the late '80s, and also to somebody called Mamdouh Salim, who is also one of the founding members of al Qaeda.

These links could be significant or they could not be in the sense that in 1988, Osama bin Laden was fighting the Soviets. After all, that was something the United States was in favor of at that time. This guy has links to a lot of the sort of anti-Soviet fighters, and I think an effective defense attorney could simply say this guy was sort of -- he had all these connections, but at the time, after all, Osama bin Laden was fighting the Soviets -- there are also connections to the Bosnia situation, which after all, we eventually bombed the Serbs who were attacking the Bosnian Muslims.

So an effective a defense attorney might say that this guy was -- he may have all these connections, but they are -- there is an innocent explanation for all of them. Let's talk about the linkages that you though -- think could be established in the late '80s. The government also found documents in this guy's Bosnian headquarters that describe the founding meeting of al Qaeda, and actually the text of the oath taken by Osama bin Laden's followers. What are you going to be looking for as more of this evidence surfaces?

BERGEN: Well, it is very interesting if they actually found the document about this -- actually, the founding moment of al Qaeda, which according to the indictment was in 1988.

That was a very significant moment. Very few people were in al Qaeda at that time, of course. Osama bin Laden and his top lieutenants. The war with the Soviet Union was winding down. They began to look for other jihads, to take the holy war to other countries other than -- Afghanistan, and they were looking to take it to places like Bosnia, and Chechnya, and eventually the United States.

So, if this guy was there at the founding, he could be a very interesting source of information, if he chose to share that with the government.

ZAHN: The government also alleges this guy, Arnaout served Osama bin Laden at an Afghanistan training camp called al Masada (ph), and it also alleges that somehow he procured a satellite phone for someone named Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, seen here in 1996. Now, what is the significance of those charges?

BERGEN: Well, if he was really at this camp in Afghanistan called al Masada (ph), also known as Jaji (ph), this is a very famous battle, at least for bin laden. In 1986, it was the first time that bin Laden and his men actually fought off the Soviet forces.

As for the satellite phone for Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar is a sort of proto-bin Laden, a quite unpleasant human being, very anti-Western. We actually gave him a fair amount of money during the war against the Soviet Union, at least $600 million by a conservative estimate. He remains somebody who is quite anti- American. He is -- Afghan officials and American officials are concerned that he might link up with former Taliban members and al Qaeda members and attack Americans in Afghanistan right now.

For many -- for some time, he was in exile in Iran. Now he is believed to be back in Afghanistan. He's an Islamic zealot, and as I say, somebody who is ideologically rather similar to bin Laden. So, if this guy was -- had some connections with him at least recently, that would probably be difficult.

ZAHN: Want to move on to this latest audio tape that everybody is trying to analyze. CNN -- U.S. officials, I guess, are telling CNN that they actually believe the voice heard on the tape is the voice of Osama bin Laden's second in command. Now, we're going to go show a picture of this guy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, that was seen earlier in an older videotape with bin Laden. What do we need to know about the significance of this tape, and if it's authenticated, what it means?

BERGEN: Ayman al-Zawahiri is widely regarded as being bin Laden's brains. He's 52. He's a little older than bin Laden. He influenced bin Laden to become more radical, to become more anti- Western. He's a very bright guy. He speaks perfect English. He's a surgeon. He's originally Egyptian. He founded a terrorist group in Egypt in 1973 when he was a medical student.

He's implicated in attacks on President Anwar Sadat, with the assassination of the Egyptian president. He's implicated with attacks on Egyptian embassies around the world, and he is very much part of the brains of al Qaeda.

The fact that he is still alive -- this tape indicates that he is because of the references on the tape -- at reference to the pending, perhaps, attack against Iraq, and recent terrorist attacks associated with al Qaeda. Clearly, this indicates that he is -- was alive or is alive in the last couple of months. The fact that he is at large is, I think, a matter of real concern.

ZAHN: Peter Bergen, thanks for your insights as always. Appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired October 10, 2002 - 09:32   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: This morning, a Chicago man faces charges that he raised and laundered money for al Qaeda. Enaam Arnaout, shown here in a photo released by the U.S. government, is alleged to have been present at the founding of al Qaeda. In fact, investigators say he is connected to al Qaeda's leadership, including Osama bin Laden.
Joining us now from Washington with more on this story, CNN Terrorism Analyst Peter Bergen -- good morning, Peter.

How significant is this arrest?

PETER BERGEN, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: This arrest could be significant if this guy is really somebody who was there at the founding of al Qaeda. Reading the indictment, there are links in the indictment to Osama bin Laden in the late '80s, and also to somebody called Mamdouh Salim, who is also one of the founding members of al Qaeda.

These links could be significant or they could not be in the sense that in 1988, Osama bin Laden was fighting the Soviets. After all, that was something the United States was in favor of at that time. This guy has links to a lot of the sort of anti-Soviet fighters, and I think an effective defense attorney could simply say this guy was sort of -- he had all these connections, but at the time, after all, Osama bin Laden was fighting the Soviets -- there are also connections to the Bosnia situation, which after all, we eventually bombed the Serbs who were attacking the Bosnian Muslims.

So an effective a defense attorney might say that this guy was -- he may have all these connections, but they are -- there is an innocent explanation for all of them. Let's talk about the linkages that you though -- think could be established in the late '80s. The government also found documents in this guy's Bosnian headquarters that describe the founding meeting of al Qaeda, and actually the text of the oath taken by Osama bin Laden's followers. What are you going to be looking for as more of this evidence surfaces?

BERGEN: Well, it is very interesting if they actually found the document about this -- actually, the founding moment of al Qaeda, which according to the indictment was in 1988.

That was a very significant moment. Very few people were in al Qaeda at that time, of course. Osama bin Laden and his top lieutenants. The war with the Soviet Union was winding down. They began to look for other jihads, to take the holy war to other countries other than -- Afghanistan, and they were looking to take it to places like Bosnia, and Chechnya, and eventually the United States.

So, if this guy was there at the founding, he could be a very interesting source of information, if he chose to share that with the government.

ZAHN: The government also alleges this guy, Arnaout served Osama bin Laden at an Afghanistan training camp called al Masada (ph), and it also alleges that somehow he procured a satellite phone for someone named Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, seen here in 1996. Now, what is the significance of those charges?

BERGEN: Well, if he was really at this camp in Afghanistan called al Masada (ph), also known as Jaji (ph), this is a very famous battle, at least for bin laden. In 1986, it was the first time that bin Laden and his men actually fought off the Soviet forces.

As for the satellite phone for Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar is a sort of proto-bin Laden, a quite unpleasant human being, very anti-Western. We actually gave him a fair amount of money during the war against the Soviet Union, at least $600 million by a conservative estimate. He remains somebody who is quite anti- American. He is -- Afghan officials and American officials are concerned that he might link up with former Taliban members and al Qaeda members and attack Americans in Afghanistan right now.

For many -- for some time, he was in exile in Iran. Now he is believed to be back in Afghanistan. He's an Islamic zealot, and as I say, somebody who is ideologically rather similar to bin Laden. So, if this guy was -- had some connections with him at least recently, that would probably be difficult.

ZAHN: Want to move on to this latest audio tape that everybody is trying to analyze. CNN -- U.S. officials, I guess, are telling CNN that they actually believe the voice heard on the tape is the voice of Osama bin Laden's second in command. Now, we're going to go show a picture of this guy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, that was seen earlier in an older videotape with bin Laden. What do we need to know about the significance of this tape, and if it's authenticated, what it means?

BERGEN: Ayman al-Zawahiri is widely regarded as being bin Laden's brains. He's 52. He's a little older than bin Laden. He influenced bin Laden to become more radical, to become more anti- Western. He's a very bright guy. He speaks perfect English. He's a surgeon. He's originally Egyptian. He founded a terrorist group in Egypt in 1973 when he was a medical student.

He's implicated in attacks on President Anwar Sadat, with the assassination of the Egyptian president. He's implicated with attacks on Egyptian embassies around the world, and he is very much part of the brains of al Qaeda.

The fact that he is still alive -- this tape indicates that he is because of the references on the tape -- at reference to the pending, perhaps, attack against Iraq, and recent terrorist attacks associated with al Qaeda. Clearly, this indicates that he is -- was alive or is alive in the last couple of months. The fact that he is at large is, I think, a matter of real concern.

ZAHN: Peter Bergen, thanks for your insights as always. Appreciate it.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com