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American Morning

Talk with Former Crime Scene Investigator Elizabeth Divine

Aired October 15, 2002 - 09:08   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Back to our big story out of Virginia at the moment. What evidence are investigators going over evidence at the crime scene? What can it tell us about killer? Elizabeth Divine is a former crime scene investigator with the Los Angeles County sheriff's department. She joins us from Los Angeles.
Welcome back. Glad to you have with us, Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH DIVINE, STORY EDITOR, "CSI": Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: Just wanted to warn you. We may have to interrupt you once that news conference gets under way by the Fairfax County police. As you can see, reporters are lined up, waiting for the Chief Thomas Major to come out, and we're hoping that if we don't get ballistics information to make any sort of tie-in between this murder and the other sniper killings, at least we'll get more information about what evidence police do have.

First of all, your reaction when you heard that another woman had lost her life in this corridor?

DIVINE: Well, it's just really tragic. Looking at the map, it appears that -- appears very similar to the other ones. I won't be surprised if they say it is linked.

ZAHN: And for folks who haven't been following this story as closely as you have, what are the obvious similarities that shout out to you?

DIVINE: Well, it's a busy shopping mall. It's in the direct area that he seems to -- and I say "he" just as a common thing -- as he's focused on. He shot in an area that's immediately fatal, and she was separated from her husband just in distance. Maybe he thought she was alone or she was just a good shot. It's really very frightening, and I think this person does like the fear he is instilling in the people of this area.

ZAHN: It is clear that, obviously, reporters don't know all the evidence investigators have at this point, but Mike Brooks, our own analyst, suggests this morning he believes police now have retrieved two shell casings. How critical is that to these investigations?

DIVINE: Well, with shell casings, I know they've involved the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. With shell casings they can use a piece of equipment called IBIS, which is the integrated ballistics identification system. And ATF has a lab that has this system in Rockville, Maryland. With those ballistics -- I'm sorry -- with the cartridge casings, they can scan those cartridge casings and the features, the individual markings on those cartridge casings, and see if this particular weapon has been used in another crime. And if it has, they -- the computer would then allow a match, and that could lead them to a particular firearm.

ZAHN: And if there isn't a match, is it back to square one?

DIVINE: Well, yes. They can tell what kind of weapon is used, and once they get this individual in custody, obviously, the cartridge casings and the projectiles will be tantamount to keeping them behind bars. But it may not lead to a person unless this weapon has been used in a previous car.

ZAHN: Let's talk about another compelling piece of evidence at least that we know about and has been confirmed, and that was the tarot card that was found at the scene of one of the sniper's killings where he basically said, "I am God." Do you view that as a calling card on the sniper's part?

DIVINE: I don't know what else you'd call it. I definitely do. I'm sure they're running everything on that card that they can, whether it be ink, where those particular cards are purchased, who manufactures them, the writing and any kind of unique marks on that. Of course, for prints. So they're really running with any kind of evidence that they recover from these locations where they believe the sniper to have been, and processing that evidence, trying to get an idea of what this person's about.

ZAHN: You have a long history of investigating crimes where a serial killer might be involved. How common would it be for a killer to leave that kind of information at the scene?

DIVINE: As far as a calling card, I've only seen it a couple of times in my career, 800 or 900 murders that I've worked. So it's pretty uncommon. I'm not sure what this person's agenda is, but it's very uncommon to leave a calling card like that.

ZAHN: And some experts at this point believe that two people have to be involved to carry out what the sniper has carried out. We're still, of course, waiting for official information from the Fairfax County police whether this killing has anything to do with him. Do you believe one or two people are involved here?

DIVINE: It's very uncommon also to have two people doing this kind of thing, but I'll leave that to the profiling experts. I really don't have personal experience in that.

ZAHN: Elizabeth Divine, as always, thanks for your time. Sorry we had to get you up so early this morning to join us.

DIVINE: That's okay. I had a lot of coffee, thank you.

ZAHN: I always appreciate -- I hope it wasn't stale. Sometimes ours is at that hour of the morning.

DIVINE: I made it at home. ZAHN: Good. You're a very smart woman!

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Divine>


Aired October 15, 2002 - 09:08   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Back to our big story out of Virginia at the moment. What evidence are investigators going over evidence at the crime scene? What can it tell us about killer? Elizabeth Divine is a former crime scene investigator with the Los Angeles County sheriff's department. She joins us from Los Angeles.
Welcome back. Glad to you have with us, Elizabeth.

ELIZABETH DIVINE, STORY EDITOR, "CSI": Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: Just wanted to warn you. We may have to interrupt you once that news conference gets under way by the Fairfax County police. As you can see, reporters are lined up, waiting for the Chief Thomas Major to come out, and we're hoping that if we don't get ballistics information to make any sort of tie-in between this murder and the other sniper killings, at least we'll get more information about what evidence police do have.

First of all, your reaction when you heard that another woman had lost her life in this corridor?

DIVINE: Well, it's just really tragic. Looking at the map, it appears that -- appears very similar to the other ones. I won't be surprised if they say it is linked.

ZAHN: And for folks who haven't been following this story as closely as you have, what are the obvious similarities that shout out to you?

DIVINE: Well, it's a busy shopping mall. It's in the direct area that he seems to -- and I say "he" just as a common thing -- as he's focused on. He shot in an area that's immediately fatal, and she was separated from her husband just in distance. Maybe he thought she was alone or she was just a good shot. It's really very frightening, and I think this person does like the fear he is instilling in the people of this area.

ZAHN: It is clear that, obviously, reporters don't know all the evidence investigators have at this point, but Mike Brooks, our own analyst, suggests this morning he believes police now have retrieved two shell casings. How critical is that to these investigations?

DIVINE: Well, with shell casings, I know they've involved the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. With shell casings they can use a piece of equipment called IBIS, which is the integrated ballistics identification system. And ATF has a lab that has this system in Rockville, Maryland. With those ballistics -- I'm sorry -- with the cartridge casings, they can scan those cartridge casings and the features, the individual markings on those cartridge casings, and see if this particular weapon has been used in another crime. And if it has, they -- the computer would then allow a match, and that could lead them to a particular firearm.

ZAHN: And if there isn't a match, is it back to square one?

DIVINE: Well, yes. They can tell what kind of weapon is used, and once they get this individual in custody, obviously, the cartridge casings and the projectiles will be tantamount to keeping them behind bars. But it may not lead to a person unless this weapon has been used in a previous car.

ZAHN: Let's talk about another compelling piece of evidence at least that we know about and has been confirmed, and that was the tarot card that was found at the scene of one of the sniper's killings where he basically said, "I am God." Do you view that as a calling card on the sniper's part?

DIVINE: I don't know what else you'd call it. I definitely do. I'm sure they're running everything on that card that they can, whether it be ink, where those particular cards are purchased, who manufactures them, the writing and any kind of unique marks on that. Of course, for prints. So they're really running with any kind of evidence that they recover from these locations where they believe the sniper to have been, and processing that evidence, trying to get an idea of what this person's about.

ZAHN: You have a long history of investigating crimes where a serial killer might be involved. How common would it be for a killer to leave that kind of information at the scene?

DIVINE: As far as a calling card, I've only seen it a couple of times in my career, 800 or 900 murders that I've worked. So it's pretty uncommon. I'm not sure what this person's agenda is, but it's very uncommon to leave a calling card like that.

ZAHN: And some experts at this point believe that two people have to be involved to carry out what the sniper has carried out. We're still, of course, waiting for official information from the Fairfax County police whether this killing has anything to do with him. Do you believe one or two people are involved here?

DIVINE: It's very uncommon also to have two people doing this kind of thing, but I'll leave that to the profiling experts. I really don't have personal experience in that.

ZAHN: Elizabeth Divine, as always, thanks for your time. Sorry we had to get you up so early this morning to join us.

DIVINE: That's okay. I had a lot of coffee, thank you.

ZAHN: I always appreciate -- I hope it wasn't stale. Sometimes ours is at that hour of the morning.

DIVINE: I made it at home. ZAHN: Good. You're a very smart woman!

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Divine>