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American Morning
Officials Believe Bombings in Indonesia Work of Group Tied to Al Qaeda
Aired October 16, 2002 - 07:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Back to the terror now in Bali. U.S. intelligence officials believe the deadly bombings last weekend in Indonesia were the work of a group tied to al Qaeda. Its leader, Abu Bakar Bashir, some call him the Osama bin Laden of Indonesia.
Our next guest has interviewed Bashir and says the attack has the markings of Bashir's group.
Zachary Abuza, an assistant professor at Simmons College, joins us from Boston this morning.
Good morning, sir.
Welcome.
ZACHARY ABUZA, SIMMONS COLLEGE: Good morning.
ZAHN: Why do you think Mr. Bashir was involved in this attack?
ABUZA: Several reasons. First of all, this type of attack is within the realm of capabilities of Islamia. All their major attacks they have planned, whether in Singapore, Malaysia or Indonesia, in the past, were truck bombs. They also have the means to do so. They have acquired ammonium nitrate, C4 explosives and TNT and stockpiled them.
There's also a sense that there needs to be revenge because so many of the Jamia Islamia leaders around the region have been arrested, 31 in Singapore, over 50 in Malaysia, over a dozen in the Philippines.
I think there's a real sense that the best defense is a good offense.
ZAHN: I know you've had...
ABUZA: Certainly in...
ZAHN: Oh, sorry, professor.
ABUZA: Go ahead.
ZAHN: I just wanted to mention, I know you had the opportunity to interview Mr. Bashir and I know you talk about him in your book, "The Tentacles of Terror."
ABUZA: Yes. ZAHN: Is it a fair characterization to call him the Osama bin Laden of Indonesia?
ABUZA: He is, a lot of people in the past have said no, he has no links to al Qaeda, he has a clearly national agenda, his goal is to turn Indonesia into an Islamic state governed by Sharia. I think that was true since, going back to the 1960s. But at some time during his exile in Malaysia -- he lived there for two decades, from 1978 -- he recruited many Indonesians who had served with the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan and joined up with Osama bin Laden.
Around 1993 to 1994 he established the Jamia Islamic and charged two of his lieutenants with setting up a regional network that worked very closely with Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda.
ZAHN: Given the relationships that Mr. Bashir has with leading members of the Indonesian government, including the vice president, who has said publicly before that he doesn't think Bashir has anything to do with terrorism, do you have any faith that this government will crack down on him if it's proven that he is linked to this Bali bombing?
ABUZA: The Singaporean, Malaysian, Philippine and American authorities have been coming to the Indonesians for the past 10 months, ever since the Jamia Islamia cells in Malaysia and Singapore were broken up last December and have asked for the arrest of Bashir. He, the Indonesian government has repeatedly denied that he is a terrorist, that Jamia Islamia exists or even al Qaeda exists in Indonesia.
As you mentioned, Abu Bakar Bashir has been, received protection from the vice president, who has made high profile visits to his Islamic boarding school in Solo. Even two days ago, the vice president has come out in Bashir's defense.
I find it interesting that the Indonesian defense minister has come out and for the first time admitted al Qaeda is in the country. And he said they operate with local terrorists. But there must be some sort of compromise in that statement because he did not name Abu Bakar Bashir by name, nor did he mention Jamia Islamia.
ZAHN: Well, there's certainly going to be a lot of pressure by members of the Congress, I know, based on a conversation with Senator Shelby yesterday encouraging our government to continue to put pressure on the Indonesian government to do something about all this.
Zachary Abuza, thank you very much for your time, professor.
Appreciate your dropping by AMERICAN MORNING.
ABUZA: Thank you very much for having me.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
to Al Qaeda>
Aired October 16, 2002 - 07:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Back to the terror now in Bali. U.S. intelligence officials believe the deadly bombings last weekend in Indonesia were the work of a group tied to al Qaeda. Its leader, Abu Bakar Bashir, some call him the Osama bin Laden of Indonesia.
Our next guest has interviewed Bashir and says the attack has the markings of Bashir's group.
Zachary Abuza, an assistant professor at Simmons College, joins us from Boston this morning.
Good morning, sir.
Welcome.
ZACHARY ABUZA, SIMMONS COLLEGE: Good morning.
ZAHN: Why do you think Mr. Bashir was involved in this attack?
ABUZA: Several reasons. First of all, this type of attack is within the realm of capabilities of Islamia. All their major attacks they have planned, whether in Singapore, Malaysia or Indonesia, in the past, were truck bombs. They also have the means to do so. They have acquired ammonium nitrate, C4 explosives and TNT and stockpiled them.
There's also a sense that there needs to be revenge because so many of the Jamia Islamia leaders around the region have been arrested, 31 in Singapore, over 50 in Malaysia, over a dozen in the Philippines.
I think there's a real sense that the best defense is a good offense.
ZAHN: I know you've had...
ABUZA: Certainly in...
ZAHN: Oh, sorry, professor.
ABUZA: Go ahead.
ZAHN: I just wanted to mention, I know you had the opportunity to interview Mr. Bashir and I know you talk about him in your book, "The Tentacles of Terror."
ABUZA: Yes. ZAHN: Is it a fair characterization to call him the Osama bin Laden of Indonesia?
ABUZA: He is, a lot of people in the past have said no, he has no links to al Qaeda, he has a clearly national agenda, his goal is to turn Indonesia into an Islamic state governed by Sharia. I think that was true since, going back to the 1960s. But at some time during his exile in Malaysia -- he lived there for two decades, from 1978 -- he recruited many Indonesians who had served with the Mujahedeen in Afghanistan and joined up with Osama bin Laden.
Around 1993 to 1994 he established the Jamia Islamic and charged two of his lieutenants with setting up a regional network that worked very closely with Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda.
ZAHN: Given the relationships that Mr. Bashir has with leading members of the Indonesian government, including the vice president, who has said publicly before that he doesn't think Bashir has anything to do with terrorism, do you have any faith that this government will crack down on him if it's proven that he is linked to this Bali bombing?
ABUZA: The Singaporean, Malaysian, Philippine and American authorities have been coming to the Indonesians for the past 10 months, ever since the Jamia Islamia cells in Malaysia and Singapore were broken up last December and have asked for the arrest of Bashir. He, the Indonesian government has repeatedly denied that he is a terrorist, that Jamia Islamia exists or even al Qaeda exists in Indonesia.
As you mentioned, Abu Bakar Bashir has been, received protection from the vice president, who has made high profile visits to his Islamic boarding school in Solo. Even two days ago, the vice president has come out in Bashir's defense.
I find it interesting that the Indonesian defense minister has come out and for the first time admitted al Qaeda is in the country. And he said they operate with local terrorists. But there must be some sort of compromise in that statement because he did not name Abu Bakar Bashir by name, nor did he mention Jamia Islamia.
ZAHN: Well, there's certainly going to be a lot of pressure by members of the Congress, I know, based on a conversation with Senator Shelby yesterday encouraging our government to continue to put pressure on the Indonesian government to do something about all this.
Zachary Abuza, thank you very much for your time, professor.
Appreciate your dropping by AMERICAN MORNING.
ABUZA: Thank you very much for having me.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
to Al Qaeda>
