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American Morning

Serial Sniper May Have Struck Again

Aired October 21, 2002 - 07:33   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get back to the situation here in Rockville. And, again, the twelfth victim believed to have been shot on Saturday night. Now if you go back to the October 2, you have nine people dead, three others wounded and this time the shooter, not only did he hit for the first time on a weekend, but he broke a string of five days of silence, and it was well outside the Washington, D.C. area, about 80 miles down I-95 just north of Richmond, Virginia in the town of Ashland.
People living in that town will tell you it is like Mayberry there.

Patty Davis now joins me, as she has all week last week -- good to see you again and good morning to you.

PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good to see you.

HEMMER: This lengthy letter that apparently was left, perhaps we'll get more throughout the day here. One would think we would. But as we go at this from an investigative standpoint right now, police will be looking at what, in terms of the message or words that were written there?

DAVIS: Well, obviously police are looking for any clues they can get -- handwriting, perhaps, any state of mind. Does he speak and write good English? Just try to get any idea about this shooter. Sources do, in fact, believe that this message was left by the shooter. That impromptu press conference last night by the police chief, sources telling us an attempt to communicate back with this person or persons.

And, Bill, there was also forensic evidence found, we all right told by sources, at the scene there in the woods. That's also being tested by the ATF to find out if there's any fingerprints, anything associated with it.

HEMMER: And "The Richmond Times" also indicating that a tarot card or cards was left at the scene on Saturday night, which reminds us all too well of what happened at Benjamin Tasker two weeks ago today.

DAVIS: That's right. And we've seen it before. There, we know that that was two weeks ago today, you're right. A 13-year-old boy gunned down as he headed into the middle school. He's still alive. He's doing much better, in the hospital. But the tarot card said, "Dear policeman, I am god." We don't know exactly what this particular message said word for word, but we did see that tarot card last time and it appears this may be the second attempt to communicate that we know of.

HEMMER: It could be the second, or it could be more, as you indicated.

DAVIS: It could be more, you're right.

HEMMER: Because we have not been told about tarot cards at other locations.

Meanwhile in Richmond, some startling news going down there. School districts, five school districts -- that encompasses a lot of students...

DAVIS: That's right.

HEMMER: Thousands and thousands are closed today.

DAVIS: Superintendents making that decision. They're obviously worried. They said they're citing community concern, parent concern. They haven't seen this down here, down there yet.

HEMMER: That's right.

DAVIS: So they're taking that measure today, that preventive kind of measure to make sure that their children are safe. And they may move to what they've done in Washington, D.C., which is they're canceling weekend activities, canceling after school activities. We'll have to see.

HEMMER: Patty, thanks.

Patty Davis here on the scene in Rockville.

Again, Paula, should get a briefing at noon Eastern time, which will give us, perhaps, a better indication maybe of what was in that message, maybe not. Police have been so tight-lipped about this.

But before we go back to New York, I just wanted to make one reminder here. Linda Franklin, gunned down at the Home Depot last week, age 47, will be laid to rest today in Arlington, Virginia. She was with her husband at the Home Depot last week when her life was taken -- Paula.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: A pointed reminder of what we're dealing with here.

HEMMER: That's right.

ZAHN: Thanks, Bill.

So what does this reported letter left at the scene of Saturday's shooting mean? Could the police be close to making contact with the shooter?

Joining me now from Philadelphia to discuss that, a guy who knows an awful lot about all this, former Philadelphia Police Commissioner John Timoney.

He is now CEO of the security and investigations firm, Bo Dietl and Associates.

Welcome back, Commissioner.

JOHN TIMONEY, FORMER COMMISSIONER, PHILADELPHIA POLICE: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: So what do think is going on here? Why would the sniper leave this text -- according to the "The Richmond Times," in addition to this letter that was left behind, there was some sort of phone number, perhaps, in the letter?

TIMONEY: Right. Yes, that's unusual. It's not unusual for serial killers to communicate with the police. You know, the Son of Sam, the Unabomber, both Zodiac killers in San Francisco and in New York all did. But the notion of supplying a phone number, almost like a neutral site, maybe a phone booth, to communicate with the police, that's highly unusual.

ZAHN: So what do you think is behind this? You know, some experts say this guy doesn't want to get caught. Others are saying he does want to get caught, he wants to stop.

TIMONEY: No, I don't think, if he wanted to get caught, he would have been caught already. He would have just stayed at the scene or been a lot more sloppy. No, he's been pretty methodical in making good his escapes. So I don't think for a second he wants to get caught.

He, you know, who knows? I'm not a shrink, but you could come up with a whole variety of scenarios of why he wants to do this. It's almost reminiscent -- there was an old movie out, probably a B-rated movie, but it was actually pretty good, with Rod Steiger playing the role of a serial killer in "No Way To Treat A Lady." And he had this dialogue going with Siegal, the actor, the detective in the movie. And that's the only time I've ever really seen the notion of a serial killer communicating with the police.

ZAHN: Now, Commissioner, what is also clear is that he or she or whoever this is -- now I guess some people believe two people were involved here -- has broken the pattern of striking within the Washington, D.C. area.

TIMONEY: Yes, yes.

ZAHN: This now happened way south of there, almost 90 miles.

TIMONEY: Right.

ZAHN: In addition to striking on a weekend, which the sniper has not done before.

TIMONEY: Correct.

ZAHN: Does that mean much?

TIMONEY: Oh, it does because I mean whether you like it or not, you set up your deployment according to patterns and patterns of past practices. And now two things come into play. One, obviously now the weekends are in play and then, two, which is really of a bigger concern, he's gone now 90 miles south of Washington, D.C. into another police, political jurisdiction, and this thing is becoming a bit unwieldy now and it may, in fact, be time, you know, for the FBI or some over arching agency to come in and take the lead, because, you know, if he goes another 50 miles south, it's kind of unrealistic now to be running this investigation, for example, out of Maryland.

ZAHN: Well, let me ask you this, if you think it's getting close to that time, if now isn't the time, when would be that time?

TIMONEY: No, I think Saturday marked that time.

ZAHN: And can you imagine that that could happen any time soon? You've got all these different jurisdictions involved right now and there seems to have been some reluctance to giving up the lead investigation to the FBI.

TIMONEY: Yes, no, I don't think there's any reluctance on the part of local authorities. The reluctance often, correctly so, by the way, is on the part of the FBI. The FBI doesn't normally like to get involved in local affairs and that's understandable. It's usually handled by the local police.

But here, we're not saying the local police can't handle it, but when you start going into five, six and seven jurisdictions, at least two states, the District of Columbia -- for example, if you looked at the District of Columbia, the very first homicide happened there. Those cases, the homicide cases in D.C. are prosecuted by the U.S. attorney. And so theoretically, at least, they could say, you know, we really need to take over this case, you know, from homicide number one.

And so there is precedent. There is, I think, enough law on their side for the FBI to come in. But just for the sake of the efficiency and coordination, I think that needs to happen.

ZAHN: Commissioner, I know we're dealing with some speculation because there's so much we don't know at this hour, but there has been so much made of the fact that they believe this sniper may be riding around in some sort of white truck with a ladder on top. If the sniper is not changing vehicles, how is he getting gas?

TIMONEY: Yes, I mean it's, just a basic thing like that, it's kind of extraordinary. While there are probably thousands of white Astro vans and box trucks, I find it hard to believe that not all of them that have been in the vicinity have been pulled over, sometimes a couple of times, by police. And so, you know, I still have my doubts regarding the white truck. And it may be somebody seeing a white truck and then people hearing about it, and witnesses, you know, seeing what they want to see, if you will, two and three minutes after these killings. And so, you know, we'll see.

ZAHN: Commissioner Timoney, as always, good to have you on the air with us.

TIMONEY: Thanks, Paula.

ZAHN: And always appreciate your insights.

TIMONEY: Bye-bye.

ZAHN: Take care.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired October 21, 2002 - 07:33   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's get back to the situation here in Rockville. And, again, the twelfth victim believed to have been shot on Saturday night. Now if you go back to the October 2, you have nine people dead, three others wounded and this time the shooter, not only did he hit for the first time on a weekend, but he broke a string of five days of silence, and it was well outside the Washington, D.C. area, about 80 miles down I-95 just north of Richmond, Virginia in the town of Ashland.
People living in that town will tell you it is like Mayberry there.

Patty Davis now joins me, as she has all week last week -- good to see you again and good morning to you.

PATTY DAVIS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good to see you.

HEMMER: This lengthy letter that apparently was left, perhaps we'll get more throughout the day here. One would think we would. But as we go at this from an investigative standpoint right now, police will be looking at what, in terms of the message or words that were written there?

DAVIS: Well, obviously police are looking for any clues they can get -- handwriting, perhaps, any state of mind. Does he speak and write good English? Just try to get any idea about this shooter. Sources do, in fact, believe that this message was left by the shooter. That impromptu press conference last night by the police chief, sources telling us an attempt to communicate back with this person or persons.

And, Bill, there was also forensic evidence found, we all right told by sources, at the scene there in the woods. That's also being tested by the ATF to find out if there's any fingerprints, anything associated with it.

HEMMER: And "The Richmond Times" also indicating that a tarot card or cards was left at the scene on Saturday night, which reminds us all too well of what happened at Benjamin Tasker two weeks ago today.

DAVIS: That's right. And we've seen it before. There, we know that that was two weeks ago today, you're right. A 13-year-old boy gunned down as he headed into the middle school. He's still alive. He's doing much better, in the hospital. But the tarot card said, "Dear policeman, I am god." We don't know exactly what this particular message said word for word, but we did see that tarot card last time and it appears this may be the second attempt to communicate that we know of.

HEMMER: It could be the second, or it could be more, as you indicated.

DAVIS: It could be more, you're right.

HEMMER: Because we have not been told about tarot cards at other locations.

Meanwhile in Richmond, some startling news going down there. School districts, five school districts -- that encompasses a lot of students...

DAVIS: That's right.

HEMMER: Thousands and thousands are closed today.

DAVIS: Superintendents making that decision. They're obviously worried. They said they're citing community concern, parent concern. They haven't seen this down here, down there yet.

HEMMER: That's right.

DAVIS: So they're taking that measure today, that preventive kind of measure to make sure that their children are safe. And they may move to what they've done in Washington, D.C., which is they're canceling weekend activities, canceling after school activities. We'll have to see.

HEMMER: Patty, thanks.

Patty Davis here on the scene in Rockville.

Again, Paula, should get a briefing at noon Eastern time, which will give us, perhaps, a better indication maybe of what was in that message, maybe not. Police have been so tight-lipped about this.

But before we go back to New York, I just wanted to make one reminder here. Linda Franklin, gunned down at the Home Depot last week, age 47, will be laid to rest today in Arlington, Virginia. She was with her husband at the Home Depot last week when her life was taken -- Paula.

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: A pointed reminder of what we're dealing with here.

HEMMER: That's right.

ZAHN: Thanks, Bill.

So what does this reported letter left at the scene of Saturday's shooting mean? Could the police be close to making contact with the shooter?

Joining me now from Philadelphia to discuss that, a guy who knows an awful lot about all this, former Philadelphia Police Commissioner John Timoney.

He is now CEO of the security and investigations firm, Bo Dietl and Associates.

Welcome back, Commissioner.

JOHN TIMONEY, FORMER COMMISSIONER, PHILADELPHIA POLICE: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: So what do think is going on here? Why would the sniper leave this text -- according to the "The Richmond Times," in addition to this letter that was left behind, there was some sort of phone number, perhaps, in the letter?

TIMONEY: Right. Yes, that's unusual. It's not unusual for serial killers to communicate with the police. You know, the Son of Sam, the Unabomber, both Zodiac killers in San Francisco and in New York all did. But the notion of supplying a phone number, almost like a neutral site, maybe a phone booth, to communicate with the police, that's highly unusual.

ZAHN: So what do you think is behind this? You know, some experts say this guy doesn't want to get caught. Others are saying he does want to get caught, he wants to stop.

TIMONEY: No, I don't think, if he wanted to get caught, he would have been caught already. He would have just stayed at the scene or been a lot more sloppy. No, he's been pretty methodical in making good his escapes. So I don't think for a second he wants to get caught.

He, you know, who knows? I'm not a shrink, but you could come up with a whole variety of scenarios of why he wants to do this. It's almost reminiscent -- there was an old movie out, probably a B-rated movie, but it was actually pretty good, with Rod Steiger playing the role of a serial killer in "No Way To Treat A Lady." And he had this dialogue going with Siegal, the actor, the detective in the movie. And that's the only time I've ever really seen the notion of a serial killer communicating with the police.

ZAHN: Now, Commissioner, what is also clear is that he or she or whoever this is -- now I guess some people believe two people were involved here -- has broken the pattern of striking within the Washington, D.C. area.

TIMONEY: Yes, yes.

ZAHN: This now happened way south of there, almost 90 miles.

TIMONEY: Right.

ZAHN: In addition to striking on a weekend, which the sniper has not done before.

TIMONEY: Correct.

ZAHN: Does that mean much?

TIMONEY: Oh, it does because I mean whether you like it or not, you set up your deployment according to patterns and patterns of past practices. And now two things come into play. One, obviously now the weekends are in play and then, two, which is really of a bigger concern, he's gone now 90 miles south of Washington, D.C. into another police, political jurisdiction, and this thing is becoming a bit unwieldy now and it may, in fact, be time, you know, for the FBI or some over arching agency to come in and take the lead, because, you know, if he goes another 50 miles south, it's kind of unrealistic now to be running this investigation, for example, out of Maryland.

ZAHN: Well, let me ask you this, if you think it's getting close to that time, if now isn't the time, when would be that time?

TIMONEY: No, I think Saturday marked that time.

ZAHN: And can you imagine that that could happen any time soon? You've got all these different jurisdictions involved right now and there seems to have been some reluctance to giving up the lead investigation to the FBI.

TIMONEY: Yes, no, I don't think there's any reluctance on the part of local authorities. The reluctance often, correctly so, by the way, is on the part of the FBI. The FBI doesn't normally like to get involved in local affairs and that's understandable. It's usually handled by the local police.

But here, we're not saying the local police can't handle it, but when you start going into five, six and seven jurisdictions, at least two states, the District of Columbia -- for example, if you looked at the District of Columbia, the very first homicide happened there. Those cases, the homicide cases in D.C. are prosecuted by the U.S. attorney. And so theoretically, at least, they could say, you know, we really need to take over this case, you know, from homicide number one.

And so there is precedent. There is, I think, enough law on their side for the FBI to come in. But just for the sake of the efficiency and coordination, I think that needs to happen.

ZAHN: Commissioner, I know we're dealing with some speculation because there's so much we don't know at this hour, but there has been so much made of the fact that they believe this sniper may be riding around in some sort of white truck with a ladder on top. If the sniper is not changing vehicles, how is he getting gas?

TIMONEY: Yes, I mean it's, just a basic thing like that, it's kind of extraordinary. While there are probably thousands of white Astro vans and box trucks, I find it hard to believe that not all of them that have been in the vicinity have been pulled over, sometimes a couple of times, by police. And so, you know, I still have my doubts regarding the white truck. And it may be somebody seeing a white truck and then people hearing about it, and witnesses, you know, seeing what they want to see, if you will, two and three minutes after these killings. And so, you know, we'll see.

ZAHN: Commissioner Timoney, as always, good to have you on the air with us.

TIMONEY: Thanks, Paula.

ZAHN: And always appreciate your insights.

TIMONEY: Bye-bye.

ZAHN: Take care.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com