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American Morning
Update on Suburban Sniper Investigation
Aired October 21, 2002 - 08:07 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: So, Bill, before we let you go, just give us a sense of when that news came down last night from Chief Moose how people there reacted to it.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, I tell you, it was startling. He's, he essentially came out -- and, you know, Paula, sometimes the police up here and the chief and the head of the ATF and the FBI, they'll come out here and talk for a half an hour. And largely there is criticism within media circles here that they're not giving out much information to help the public or giving out much information as to whether or not they're making any progress with the scene.
Last night, he literally stood there for less than a minute's time and he came out unplanned earlier, it was an unscheduled briefing. But when he dropped that bomb about this message, the first reaction from most people, Paula, was one of confusion. You know, he says, OK, the number you left at the scene, please call that number. Well, what does that mean?
After that, another police officer came out and clarified the matter and said if, indeed, the sniper was watching, they will know, he will know, they will know whether it's one, two or more, what, indeed, the chief meant. That was the word from last night.
ZAHN: And I guess this is all becoming a little less murky this morning.
Thanks, Bill.
HEMMER: Sure.
ZAHN: With some of the report Bill has done and "The Richmond Times" article basically indicating that the shooter did leave a calling card, a note with significant text, at the scene of the crime in Ashland, Virginia. As I said, there are a number of reports suggesting just that. We are all wondering whether it was an attempt to make contact with the killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF CHARLES MOOSE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE: To the person who left us a message at the Ponderosa last night, you gave us a telephone number. We do want to talk to you. Call us at the number you provided.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: And joining us now from Washington with his perspective, CNN security analyst Kelly McCann.
Welcome back. Good to see you.
J. KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Hi, Paula.
ZAHN: What kind of a game do you think the sniper is playing here?
MCCANN: You know, it could be a taunt. It could be a test. And then it also could be a move to resolution. I mean, in fact, he may be reaching out, and of course the police definitely want to reach out because it's very difficult to deal with a subject that you have absolutely no way of contacting. So it definitely is a mystery and it's going to reveal a couple of twists, I think.
ZAHN: What are some of the risks involved here with the police speaking to this individual, in essence, through the media?
MCCANN: If you go with the thought process obviously this is an aberrant personality, then, you know, the wrong kind of dialogue could exacerbate the situation, could incite. It could also mediate and it could, you know, de-escalate the situation. So I'm sure that, you know, professionals are going to be dealing with this man in the manner that he architects.
ZAHN: The sniper, of course, has been very cunning so far. There is a report this morning suggesting significant forensics evidence might have been found at the scene of this attack Saturday night. Is it possible that the sniper purposefully planted stuff to throw police off?
MCCANN: Oh, absolutely. I mean, you know, there's been incredible conjecture offered and opinion. If you think about just the shell casings alone, the fact that there are shell casings does not mean that those shell casings came from his gun, even if they are similar with all the ejector markings, extractor markings, firing pin indents. It just means that they've been fired from a gun that is, you know, the same. So until they actually get that weapon and can run control data and get a baseline index, that could all be red herrings.
So, I mean, I think that opinions are fine and everyone rates them. However, fact is great because it's unequivocal.
ZAHN: We just spoke with the doctor who operated on this victim Saturday night and he said although the bullet didn't come out whole, he was able to get large parts of it intact. And I guess until there's conclusive evidence that this is not the case, police are pretty much going on the suspicion they think this latest killing was connected to that.
If it's the case, why the break in the pattern here? Why way outside the D.C. area, almost 90 miles? Why on a weekend?
MCCANN: CNN's criminologist, Casey Jordan, has pointed out a good fact, which is if you back up a little bit, it actually kind of is a pattern. Every time that there's been a move to a particular methodology or a tactic, he has reacted/responded. And, in fact, with the intense police scrutiny in the area, his movement to the south indicates and is consistent with other things, for instance, when it was said that the children are safe, etc., and then we unfortunately saw the engagement of a child.
So people who do this for a living, who actually read case histories and have interviewed these people, are very adept at identifying those patterns.
ZAHN: I just wanted to talk about some of the controversy that is burbling up around the edges of this story. The "Washington Post" reporting so far that the tactics of the dragnets, four of them so far, are beginning to concern civil libertarians.
What do you think?
MCCANN: Sure. I mean that's unavoidable, you know? I mean it really is. If you think about simple time/distance equations and how fast you can get away if you do 65 miles an hour in three minutes, now they responded and had the highway shut down in seven minutes, which if it was a narcotics raid would have been ample time. But this is an individually mobile person. It's almost impossible not to bump up against civil liberties because, you know, the scrutiny and the level of control has to be increased. But people should remember that that state goes away when the incident ends. It's not like those stringent measures remain. So I think we all have to just take a breath and relax on that issue.
ZAHN: We've got about 10 seconds left. Do you think investigators will find this guy or the perpetrators? Now I guess some people think they're operating in teams of two.
MCCANN: Factually, the statistics show that the large majority of serial killers are not caught. However, this contact is very interesting in that he may be seeking a resolution to it. So we'll have to wait.
ZAHN: J. Kelly McCann, as always, good to have you on the air with us. Appreciate your insights.
MCCANN: Thanks, Paula.
ZAHN: Have a good rest of the day.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 21, 2002 - 08:07 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: So, Bill, before we let you go, just give us a sense of when that news came down last night from Chief Moose how people there reacted to it.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, I tell you, it was startling. He's, he essentially came out -- and, you know, Paula, sometimes the police up here and the chief and the head of the ATF and the FBI, they'll come out here and talk for a half an hour. And largely there is criticism within media circles here that they're not giving out much information to help the public or giving out much information as to whether or not they're making any progress with the scene.
Last night, he literally stood there for less than a minute's time and he came out unplanned earlier, it was an unscheduled briefing. But when he dropped that bomb about this message, the first reaction from most people, Paula, was one of confusion. You know, he says, OK, the number you left at the scene, please call that number. Well, what does that mean?
After that, another police officer came out and clarified the matter and said if, indeed, the sniper was watching, they will know, he will know, they will know whether it's one, two or more, what, indeed, the chief meant. That was the word from last night.
ZAHN: And I guess this is all becoming a little less murky this morning.
Thanks, Bill.
HEMMER: Sure.
ZAHN: With some of the report Bill has done and "The Richmond Times" article basically indicating that the shooter did leave a calling card, a note with significant text, at the scene of the crime in Ashland, Virginia. As I said, there are a number of reports suggesting just that. We are all wondering whether it was an attempt to make contact with the killer.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF CHARLES MOOSE, MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE: To the person who left us a message at the Ponderosa last night, you gave us a telephone number. We do want to talk to you. Call us at the number you provided.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZAHN: And joining us now from Washington with his perspective, CNN security analyst Kelly McCann.
Welcome back. Good to see you.
J. KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Hi, Paula.
ZAHN: What kind of a game do you think the sniper is playing here?
MCCANN: You know, it could be a taunt. It could be a test. And then it also could be a move to resolution. I mean, in fact, he may be reaching out, and of course the police definitely want to reach out because it's very difficult to deal with a subject that you have absolutely no way of contacting. So it definitely is a mystery and it's going to reveal a couple of twists, I think.
ZAHN: What are some of the risks involved here with the police speaking to this individual, in essence, through the media?
MCCANN: If you go with the thought process obviously this is an aberrant personality, then, you know, the wrong kind of dialogue could exacerbate the situation, could incite. It could also mediate and it could, you know, de-escalate the situation. So I'm sure that, you know, professionals are going to be dealing with this man in the manner that he architects.
ZAHN: The sniper, of course, has been very cunning so far. There is a report this morning suggesting significant forensics evidence might have been found at the scene of this attack Saturday night. Is it possible that the sniper purposefully planted stuff to throw police off?
MCCANN: Oh, absolutely. I mean, you know, there's been incredible conjecture offered and opinion. If you think about just the shell casings alone, the fact that there are shell casings does not mean that those shell casings came from his gun, even if they are similar with all the ejector markings, extractor markings, firing pin indents. It just means that they've been fired from a gun that is, you know, the same. So until they actually get that weapon and can run control data and get a baseline index, that could all be red herrings.
So, I mean, I think that opinions are fine and everyone rates them. However, fact is great because it's unequivocal.
ZAHN: We just spoke with the doctor who operated on this victim Saturday night and he said although the bullet didn't come out whole, he was able to get large parts of it intact. And I guess until there's conclusive evidence that this is not the case, police are pretty much going on the suspicion they think this latest killing was connected to that.
If it's the case, why the break in the pattern here? Why way outside the D.C. area, almost 90 miles? Why on a weekend?
MCCANN: CNN's criminologist, Casey Jordan, has pointed out a good fact, which is if you back up a little bit, it actually kind of is a pattern. Every time that there's been a move to a particular methodology or a tactic, he has reacted/responded. And, in fact, with the intense police scrutiny in the area, his movement to the south indicates and is consistent with other things, for instance, when it was said that the children are safe, etc., and then we unfortunately saw the engagement of a child.
So people who do this for a living, who actually read case histories and have interviewed these people, are very adept at identifying those patterns.
ZAHN: I just wanted to talk about some of the controversy that is burbling up around the edges of this story. The "Washington Post" reporting so far that the tactics of the dragnets, four of them so far, are beginning to concern civil libertarians.
What do you think?
MCCANN: Sure. I mean that's unavoidable, you know? I mean it really is. If you think about simple time/distance equations and how fast you can get away if you do 65 miles an hour in three minutes, now they responded and had the highway shut down in seven minutes, which if it was a narcotics raid would have been ample time. But this is an individually mobile person. It's almost impossible not to bump up against civil liberties because, you know, the scrutiny and the level of control has to be increased. But people should remember that that state goes away when the incident ends. It's not like those stringent measures remain. So I think we all have to just take a breath and relax on that issue.
ZAHN: We've got about 10 seconds left. Do you think investigators will find this guy or the perpetrators? Now I guess some people think they're operating in teams of two.
MCCANN: Factually, the statistics show that the large majority of serial killers are not caught. However, this contact is very interesting in that he may be seeking a resolution to it. So we'll have to wait.
ZAHN: J. Kelly McCann, as always, good to have you on the air with us. Appreciate your insights.
MCCANN: Thanks, Paula.
ZAHN: Have a good rest of the day.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
