Return to Transcripts main page
American Morning
On Forgiveness
Aired October 29, 2002 - 08:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now we will go on to a story that some of you might find interesting, some of you might find surprising. Why would a man whose daughter died in the Columbine massacre reach out to the killer known as the Son of Sam? Seventeen-year-old Rachel Scott was among the 13 people who were shot to death more than three years ago at Columbine High School in Colorado.
Since then, her father Darrell has made two present visits to David Berkowitz, who killed six people in New York during the late '70s. Darrell has written three inspirational books about his daughter. The latest is called "Rachel Smiles," and Darrell Scott joins me now.
Good morning. Thank you very much are being with us.
DARRELL SCOTT, DAUGHTER KILLED IN COLUMBINE SHOOTINGS: Good morning, Paula. You're welcome. Good to be here.
ZAHN: How is it that you and David Berkowitz got to know each other?
SCOTT: My daughter had written an essay a month before she died called "My ethics, My Codes of Life," and in that essay, she talked about compassion, kindness, reaching out to people who weren't being reached out to. In her diary she wrote and she prayed, God help me to reach people who aren't being reached, and I had received a call from a friend of David Berkowitz, who said he had read the book "Rachel's Tears" and was deeply moved by Rachel's life and some of her writings, and I did some investigation and found out that David had gone through some major changes in his life about 15 years ago, and that he had changed his whole attitude toward life, toward people behind prison bars, was spending voluntary time reaching out to others behind bars, and kindness, compassion, acts of compassion in this prison.
And so I was speaking at Cornell University, at Ithaca College. I speak to a lot of colleges and universities about nonviolence. We have a nonviolence program for high schools around the country.
And I went not to reach out to him, but just out of curiosity as to why he would have been impacted by Rachel's writings, and as I met with him, talked with some of the guards, talked with some of the people in prison, realized that there had been a real hard change in David Berkowitz.
I certainly don't condone the things he did. He did horrible things when he was 23 years old, and that's been 25 years ago, but thank God people can change, and that over a period of time, hearts can change. It doesn't mean that he shouldn't be punished for what he did, and he would agree with that.
ZAHN: Do you understand why many of the family members of his victims are really uncomfortable with the whole notion that there's been a conversion here?
SCOTT: I certainly do understand that. And each one of us has to deal with our own faith, with our own beliefs, with our own feelings, and my heart really goes out to those victims. I know what it's like to lose a child to a serial killer, even though all of the killings took place in one day.
And I certainly, my heart has always gone out to his victims as well, and I do understand that. And if Eric and Dylan had lived, and I thought about this in meeting with Eric Berkowitz, how would I feel if someone 25 years later met with him like I have with David Berkowitz.
ZAHN: Would you be offended?
SCOTT: And honestly, I don't think that I would if I believed that their hearts had changed, and I think -- like I say, all of us have an opportunity to bring changes to our heart and to our lives, and from what I can see, there's been a change of heart in David Berkowitz.
ZAHN: I'm going to quickly read a passage from your book, "Rachel Smiles," where you write, "Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were responsible for their horrible actions, and had they lived should have suffered the consequences of those actions, but at the same time, we could not allow ourselves to harbor hatred and unforgiveness toward them. How difficult was it for you to forgive your daughter's killers?
SCOTT: I honestly don't think I could have in my own strength, but there is a God, and he -- through his strength and through his grace, and it's not just our family. I meet with families all the time of victims, and I watch people who don't forgive, and many times they become bitter and angry, and it victimizes them over and over again. Forgiveness has to do with the attitude of the heart. Pardon has to do with the judicial system. I would not have pardoned Eric and Dylan. They were responsible for their actions, but I could not harbor anger, bitterness and hatred, because it would have ruined my life, and my daughter wouldn't have wanted that.
ZAHN: I want to quickly close with another quote that leapt out any of us who look at "Rachel Smiles," where you write -- quote -- "The man who was once called the Son of Sam now wants to be remembered as the 'Son of Hope.' You've got to understand how squeamish that makes a lot of people out there.
SCOTT: And I do. I understand that. They have the right to feel squeamish, and I'm not here to justify anything David Berkowitz did. I'm just here to say that God can forgive people for their actions, for their attitudes, and people can change. And whether David Berkowitz has truly changed is between him and God. It's not my call. I see a man who for 15 years has proven by his actions that he has reached out to other people and tried to make a difference.
ZAHN: You brought some beautiful pictures in of your daughter that you lost, Rachel Scott. Boy, these are just really, really powerful images of her.
SCOTT: Thank you. She was a wonderful person. And her life has made an impact on millions of people, and David is just one person that she touched.
ZAHN: Darrell Scott, we really appreciate you sharing your story with us this morning. I know you feel that parts of it have been sensationalized. I hope you felt like you got a fair chance here today to tell how you're really thinking.
SCOTT: I did, thank you.
ZAHN: Than, you. Best of luck for your family. I really appreciate your dropping by.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired October 29, 2002 - 08:35 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Now we will go on to a story that some of you might find interesting, some of you might find surprising. Why would a man whose daughter died in the Columbine massacre reach out to the killer known as the Son of Sam? Seventeen-year-old Rachel Scott was among the 13 people who were shot to death more than three years ago at Columbine High School in Colorado.
Since then, her father Darrell has made two present visits to David Berkowitz, who killed six people in New York during the late '70s. Darrell has written three inspirational books about his daughter. The latest is called "Rachel Smiles," and Darrell Scott joins me now.
Good morning. Thank you very much are being with us.
DARRELL SCOTT, DAUGHTER KILLED IN COLUMBINE SHOOTINGS: Good morning, Paula. You're welcome. Good to be here.
ZAHN: How is it that you and David Berkowitz got to know each other?
SCOTT: My daughter had written an essay a month before she died called "My ethics, My Codes of Life," and in that essay, she talked about compassion, kindness, reaching out to people who weren't being reached out to. In her diary she wrote and she prayed, God help me to reach people who aren't being reached, and I had received a call from a friend of David Berkowitz, who said he had read the book "Rachel's Tears" and was deeply moved by Rachel's life and some of her writings, and I did some investigation and found out that David had gone through some major changes in his life about 15 years ago, and that he had changed his whole attitude toward life, toward people behind prison bars, was spending voluntary time reaching out to others behind bars, and kindness, compassion, acts of compassion in this prison.
And so I was speaking at Cornell University, at Ithaca College. I speak to a lot of colleges and universities about nonviolence. We have a nonviolence program for high schools around the country.
And I went not to reach out to him, but just out of curiosity as to why he would have been impacted by Rachel's writings, and as I met with him, talked with some of the guards, talked with some of the people in prison, realized that there had been a real hard change in David Berkowitz.
I certainly don't condone the things he did. He did horrible things when he was 23 years old, and that's been 25 years ago, but thank God people can change, and that over a period of time, hearts can change. It doesn't mean that he shouldn't be punished for what he did, and he would agree with that.
ZAHN: Do you understand why many of the family members of his victims are really uncomfortable with the whole notion that there's been a conversion here?
SCOTT: I certainly do understand that. And each one of us has to deal with our own faith, with our own beliefs, with our own feelings, and my heart really goes out to those victims. I know what it's like to lose a child to a serial killer, even though all of the killings took place in one day.
And I certainly, my heart has always gone out to his victims as well, and I do understand that. And if Eric and Dylan had lived, and I thought about this in meeting with Eric Berkowitz, how would I feel if someone 25 years later met with him like I have with David Berkowitz.
ZAHN: Would you be offended?
SCOTT: And honestly, I don't think that I would if I believed that their hearts had changed, and I think -- like I say, all of us have an opportunity to bring changes to our heart and to our lives, and from what I can see, there's been a change of heart in David Berkowitz.
ZAHN: I'm going to quickly read a passage from your book, "Rachel Smiles," where you write, "Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were responsible for their horrible actions, and had they lived should have suffered the consequences of those actions, but at the same time, we could not allow ourselves to harbor hatred and unforgiveness toward them. How difficult was it for you to forgive your daughter's killers?
SCOTT: I honestly don't think I could have in my own strength, but there is a God, and he -- through his strength and through his grace, and it's not just our family. I meet with families all the time of victims, and I watch people who don't forgive, and many times they become bitter and angry, and it victimizes them over and over again. Forgiveness has to do with the attitude of the heart. Pardon has to do with the judicial system. I would not have pardoned Eric and Dylan. They were responsible for their actions, but I could not harbor anger, bitterness and hatred, because it would have ruined my life, and my daughter wouldn't have wanted that.
ZAHN: I want to quickly close with another quote that leapt out any of us who look at "Rachel Smiles," where you write -- quote -- "The man who was once called the Son of Sam now wants to be remembered as the 'Son of Hope.' You've got to understand how squeamish that makes a lot of people out there.
SCOTT: And I do. I understand that. They have the right to feel squeamish, and I'm not here to justify anything David Berkowitz did. I'm just here to say that God can forgive people for their actions, for their attitudes, and people can change. And whether David Berkowitz has truly changed is between him and God. It's not my call. I see a man who for 15 years has proven by his actions that he has reached out to other people and tried to make a difference.
ZAHN: You brought some beautiful pictures in of your daughter that you lost, Rachel Scott. Boy, these are just really, really powerful images of her.
SCOTT: Thank you. She was a wonderful person. And her life has made an impact on millions of people, and David is just one person that she touched.
ZAHN: Darrell Scott, we really appreciate you sharing your story with us this morning. I know you feel that parts of it have been sensationalized. I hope you felt like you got a fair chance here today to tell how you're really thinking.
SCOTT: I did, thank you.
ZAHN: Than, you. Best of luck for your family. I really appreciate your dropping by.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
