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American Morning

Hollywood & Crime

Aired October 29, 2002 - 07:44   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: There are some new plot twists in a pair of Hollywood crime cases. It seems actress Winona Ryder, on trial for allegedly trying to shoplift more than $5,000 worth of merchandise from a department store, may have a friend on the jury. Wait until you hear this one.
And a witness says Ryder said she was shoplifting to practice for a movie role. All right.

And actor Robert Blake, accused in the murder of his wife, is probably going to need a new lawyer. His attorney is quitting the case, because Blake insists on doing a TV interview.

Joining me now to sort through all of this is CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

Good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Howdy.

ZAHN: How could it be that Winona Ryder ends up with a member of her jury having been her boss at one time?

TOOBIN: Peter Guber. One of the things people don't realize about jury selection is you don't have to be totally ignorant. All you have to do is persuade the lawyers that you can be fair. You can know the people, you can -- I mean, it's certainly unusual, I have to admit. But...

ZAHN: She made three movies for this guy.

TOOBIN: Well, I mean, he was at a pretty lofty level. I mean, it wasn't like day-to-day supervision. Look, I'm not saying it isn't weird.

ZAHN: She was still getting a paycheck from the guy.

TOOBIN: Yes, well.

ZAHN: Yes?

TOOBIN: And the lawyers apparently were convinced that he could be fair, and there he is. And the judge didn't throw him off for cause, so there he sits.

ZAHN: So, let's talk about this -- what do you call it -- defense that you did this because you were preparing for a role. Is that going to fly?

TOOBIN: Well, I don't know. Andy Serwer was talking about Earth Link (ph) journalists, when they get caught looking at porn sites at the office, they all say, oh, well, I was reporting a story.

ZAHN: Right.

TOOBIN: This is the movie equivalent of that. It doesn't strike me as a very strong defense, but you know, we'll see. Maybe Mr. Guber and his colleagues on the jury will buy it.

ZAHN: Let's talk about a call that we got from Ms. Ryder's defense team yesterday, pointing out the part of yesterday's testimony by a security guard, who admitted that actually three days went by before they noticed the tags were cut. He originally said it was the same day.

TOOBIN: It raises the possibility that they had been cut later, you know, the chain of custody is interrupted. It's a good fact for the defense. It doesn't strike me as the silver bullet of innocence, but you know, it will help.

ZAHN: So, how do you see this playing out?

TOOBIN: You know, I have to say I'm not in the courtroom. I don't really know. I think it's odd that she didn't find...

ZAHN: You do know, Jeff, come on.

TOOBIN: Well, come on, it's odd that she didn't work it out. I mean, you know? This case is not the trial of the century. You know, we're talking about snipers and death penalty. This is not such a huge case. It seems like she could have made this case go away at relatively minimal cost. Now, she's looking at losing a felony case. That's sad.

ZAHN: That -- do you think there's a potential of that happening?

TOOBIN: Oh, sure. Absolutely. Yes, I mean, if she's going to the jury saying she was researching a movie role, I would say there's a good chance of conviction in this case.

ZAHN: Wow!

TOOBIN: Yes...

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: Interesting. I don't know, you've got the wrong tie on. Usually...

TOOBIN: I (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: ... a conviction, you've got to keep your tie on.

Let's talk about Harland Braun leaving Robert Blake. Now, this guy has forcefully (UNINTELLIGIBLE) him through the process (ph).

TOOBIN: He's been on CNN almost as much as you have in the past...

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: Yes, he has.

Let's listen to what he has to say about why he is dropping his client, Robert Blake.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARLAND BRAUN, BLAKE'S CHIEF ATTORNEY: I told Robert down in the jail that because of a difference of philosophy that I would be withdrawing as his criminal lawyer, and he should obtain new counsel. I'll cooperate (ph), my investigators will assist the new lawyer, but it's just not something that I could condone is going on television on camera and discussing any part of the case before we get to trial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: All right, help me with something this morning. It's not even clear that the sheriff's office is going to let this TV interview go on.

TOOBIN: Correct.

ZAHN: But is there another reason for Harland Braun dumping his client?

TOOBIN: There could be. There's sometimes a problem that defense attorneys, there's a disagreement with Mr. Green (ph), which means all of the money problems, that the money is no longer coming in. That could be one of the reasons.

It could be true a personality conflict between the two. It could be that he just has run out of steam somewhat, but that's so odd, especially now. You know, the preliminary hearing is scheduled for December 11, you know, just around the corner.

If a new lawyer comes in, it's going to have to be delayed even more. The prosecution is going to object. So, there's no guarantee that the judge is going to let Harland out of this case.

ZAHN: What kind of precedent is this for an attorney dumping his client this close to a pretrial hearing?

TOOBIN: It happens, but usually, you need a better reason than this, especially when you consider Blake has done off-camera interviews already from prison, and he's talked to any number of people. And why Braun decides to make such a statement about an on-camera interview when he's done off-camera and -- the whole thing just seems sort of bizarre to me.

ZAHN: Yes, there's been a constant parade of journalists going in there...

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: Right, and Larry King was in there...

ZAHN: Yes.

TOOBIN: ... and lots of, you know, people. And so, I don't -- it really is peculiar. And I think given that, he will have a hard time persuading a judge that he wants to get out -- that he needs to get out of the case now.

ZAHN: Well, we're going to ask Harland Braun himself in our next hour. He's going to be a guest here, right here on AMERICAN MORNING, and find out why he says he's quitting the case.

Jeffrey Toobin, thanks so much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.






Aired October 29, 2002 - 07:44   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: There are some new plot twists in a pair of Hollywood crime cases. It seems actress Winona Ryder, on trial for allegedly trying to shoplift more than $5,000 worth of merchandise from a department store, may have a friend on the jury. Wait until you hear this one.
And a witness says Ryder said she was shoplifting to practice for a movie role. All right.

And actor Robert Blake, accused in the murder of his wife, is probably going to need a new lawyer. His attorney is quitting the case, because Blake insists on doing a TV interview.

Joining me now to sort through all of this is CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

Good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Howdy.

ZAHN: How could it be that Winona Ryder ends up with a member of her jury having been her boss at one time?

TOOBIN: Peter Guber. One of the things people don't realize about jury selection is you don't have to be totally ignorant. All you have to do is persuade the lawyers that you can be fair. You can know the people, you can -- I mean, it's certainly unusual, I have to admit. But...

ZAHN: She made three movies for this guy.

TOOBIN: Well, I mean, he was at a pretty lofty level. I mean, it wasn't like day-to-day supervision. Look, I'm not saying it isn't weird.

ZAHN: She was still getting a paycheck from the guy.

TOOBIN: Yes, well.

ZAHN: Yes?

TOOBIN: And the lawyers apparently were convinced that he could be fair, and there he is. And the judge didn't throw him off for cause, so there he sits.

ZAHN: So, let's talk about this -- what do you call it -- defense that you did this because you were preparing for a role. Is that going to fly?

TOOBIN: Well, I don't know. Andy Serwer was talking about Earth Link (ph) journalists, when they get caught looking at porn sites at the office, they all say, oh, well, I was reporting a story.

ZAHN: Right.

TOOBIN: This is the movie equivalent of that. It doesn't strike me as a very strong defense, but you know, we'll see. Maybe Mr. Guber and his colleagues on the jury will buy it.

ZAHN: Let's talk about a call that we got from Ms. Ryder's defense team yesterday, pointing out the part of yesterday's testimony by a security guard, who admitted that actually three days went by before they noticed the tags were cut. He originally said it was the same day.

TOOBIN: It raises the possibility that they had been cut later, you know, the chain of custody is interrupted. It's a good fact for the defense. It doesn't strike me as the silver bullet of innocence, but you know, it will help.

ZAHN: So, how do you see this playing out?

TOOBIN: You know, I have to say I'm not in the courtroom. I don't really know. I think it's odd that she didn't find...

ZAHN: You do know, Jeff, come on.

TOOBIN: Well, come on, it's odd that she didn't work it out. I mean, you know? This case is not the trial of the century. You know, we're talking about snipers and death penalty. This is not such a huge case. It seems like she could have made this case go away at relatively minimal cost. Now, she's looking at losing a felony case. That's sad.

ZAHN: That -- do you think there's a potential of that happening?

TOOBIN: Oh, sure. Absolutely. Yes, I mean, if she's going to the jury saying she was researching a movie role, I would say there's a good chance of conviction in this case.

ZAHN: Wow!

TOOBIN: Yes...

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: Interesting. I don't know, you've got the wrong tie on. Usually...

TOOBIN: I (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: ... a conviction, you've got to keep your tie on.

Let's talk about Harland Braun leaving Robert Blake. Now, this guy has forcefully (UNINTELLIGIBLE) him through the process (ph).

TOOBIN: He's been on CNN almost as much as you have in the past...

(CROSSTALK)

ZAHN: Yes, he has.

Let's listen to what he has to say about why he is dropping his client, Robert Blake.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARLAND BRAUN, BLAKE'S CHIEF ATTORNEY: I told Robert down in the jail that because of a difference of philosophy that I would be withdrawing as his criminal lawyer, and he should obtain new counsel. I'll cooperate (ph), my investigators will assist the new lawyer, but it's just not something that I could condone is going on television on camera and discussing any part of the case before we get to trial.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: All right, help me with something this morning. It's not even clear that the sheriff's office is going to let this TV interview go on.

TOOBIN: Correct.

ZAHN: But is there another reason for Harland Braun dumping his client?

TOOBIN: There could be. There's sometimes a problem that defense attorneys, there's a disagreement with Mr. Green (ph), which means all of the money problems, that the money is no longer coming in. That could be one of the reasons.

It could be true a personality conflict between the two. It could be that he just has run out of steam somewhat, but that's so odd, especially now. You know, the preliminary hearing is scheduled for December 11, you know, just around the corner.

If a new lawyer comes in, it's going to have to be delayed even more. The prosecution is going to object. So, there's no guarantee that the judge is going to let Harland out of this case.

ZAHN: What kind of precedent is this for an attorney dumping his client this close to a pretrial hearing?

TOOBIN: It happens, but usually, you need a better reason than this, especially when you consider Blake has done off-camera interviews already from prison, and he's talked to any number of people. And why Braun decides to make such a statement about an on-camera interview when he's done off-camera and -- the whole thing just seems sort of bizarre to me.

ZAHN: Yes, there's been a constant parade of journalists going in there...

(CROSSTALK)

TOOBIN: Right, and Larry King was in there...

ZAHN: Yes.

TOOBIN: ... and lots of, you know, people. And so, I don't -- it really is peculiar. And I think given that, he will have a hard time persuading a judge that he wants to get out -- that he needs to get out of the case now.

ZAHN: Well, we're going to ask Harland Braun himself in our next hour. He's going to be a guest here, right here on AMERICAN MORNING, and find out why he says he's quitting the case.

Jeffrey Toobin, thanks so much.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.