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American Morning
Muhammad, Malvo Are Charged in Louisiana Killing
Aired November 01, 2002 - 07:09 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Investigators across the country say they are checking to see if the rifle taken from the sniper suspects' car might have been used in unsolved crimes in their areas. Ballistic tests have been a key, as the investigation of John Allen Muhammad and John Lee Malvo has widened.
Joining us now from Washington is CNN security analyst Kelly McCann.
Good morning.
J. KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Hi, Paula.
ZAHN: Let's talk about this linkage to this Baton Rouge killing. Does that come as any surprise to you?
MCCANN: No, I think anytime these days when there's a serial killer still on the loose, a lot of people are looking to clear cases that are unsolved. And so, if there is ballistic evidence, then that's the first place they'll go to. They'll send it forward to the jurisdiction that has the offender, and then try to do a match and see if they can clear their books.
ZAHN: So, how significant in the end do you think this is of a development?
MCCANN: I think it's significant. I think that you're going to see, perhaps, a tracking of small crimes, petty crimes, maybe major crimes, capital offenses like this. As they made their way to the East Coast, they were trying to support themselves by any means. So, I think we'll see some more crimes as well linked to them.
ZAHN: Just based on the descriptions of what we've heard happened at that crime scene in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, does it surprise you if someone had the choice of weapons, which some investigators think Mr. Muhammad did allegedly at that point, that he would use a Bushmaster rifle so out in the open in this parking lot?
MCCANN: Well, certainly it's odd. I mean, normally, a smaller weapon more easily concealed is what you'd see in a robbery-type of situation. But again, trying to put this puzzle together and look inside his mind has been very difficult as it is.
ZAHN: Now, you were talking about how you think this opened up the investigation and blows it wide open. Let's talk about even police in Lansing, Michigan now revisiting an unsolved murder from way back in June of 2001. MCCANN: Absolutely. I mean, you know, again, they're going to look at ballistic evidence.
I brought a training round in with me, so I could kind of talk you though that and show you what they're looking for. But those pieces of evidence are going to be very, very important these days as they try to link the cases.
ZAHN: You can go through some of that info if you'd like.
MCCANN: Sure. If you look at this round right here, all rounds of ammunition are basically comprised of four components. You have a projectile, and then you have a casing, and then you have a firing pin, which would be at the very end here where I've got the black mark, and then the propellant. There are four different kinds of metals. The primer is steel, the casing is brass and the projectile is at least copper and lead.
The projectile, as this thing goes into the weapon, interacts with metal, and that's where the markings are left. First, the bolt face strikes the base of the round, putting a mark on it. And then, as it goes into the chamber, the extractor goes around this very, very small ridge at the very base here, leaving a tooling mark.
Then, of course, the firing pin hits the very base of it -- you can see where my small mark is dead center -- that has a fingerprint. At that point, the projective leaves the barrel, and as that projectile is pushed under very great pressure through the barrel, it interacts with lands (ph) and grooves, which basically rifle the round and keep it stable during its trajectory.
That is actually the fingerprint that we're looking at on all components of the bullet, both the casing and the projectile itself.
Now, when it impacts into anything hard, a mass, what you'll see then is, of course, deformity of the round, and usually, with this particular bullet, the copper jacket separates from the lead core. To the extent that that copper jacket is left intact and has those markings, which are created by the porosity of the barrel and the tooling marks when they cut the rifling, therein is the fingerprint that they'll check.
So, it is a very, very exact science, and it's all done microscopically, and it's very reliable.
ZAHN: Yes, what a roadmap it has given investigators.
Final question for you. A lot of being made of the fact we don't really know who fired which shots in which killings or in which shootings, but when you talk with relatives of John Lee Malvo, you are left with the impression that this is a kid that didn't show much interest in firearms. They describe him as nice, respectful, mannerly. Is it possible that he could have learned as recently as this summer how to fire the Bushmaster rifle?
MCCANN: Sure. Remember that the basic design of that rifle as a general service weapon was specifically designed so that all manner of people, regardless of their dexterity, regardless of the way that they are physically structured, could fire that weapon accurately. It's been the service rifle since the mid-'60s.
So, if you think about the millions of people who have had to use that weapon well, that's in fact why anybody could pick one up and make it work accurately.
ZAHN: J. Kelly McCann, as always, thanks for your expertise -- appreciate it.
MCCANN: Thanks, Paula.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
Aired November 1, 2002 - 07:09 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Investigators across the country say they are checking to see if the rifle taken from the sniper suspects' car might have been used in unsolved crimes in their areas. Ballistic tests have been a key, as the investigation of John Allen Muhammad and John Lee Malvo has widened.
Joining us now from Washington is CNN security analyst Kelly McCann.
Good morning.
J. KELLY MCCANN, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Hi, Paula.
ZAHN: Let's talk about this linkage to this Baton Rouge killing. Does that come as any surprise to you?
MCCANN: No, I think anytime these days when there's a serial killer still on the loose, a lot of people are looking to clear cases that are unsolved. And so, if there is ballistic evidence, then that's the first place they'll go to. They'll send it forward to the jurisdiction that has the offender, and then try to do a match and see if they can clear their books.
ZAHN: So, how significant in the end do you think this is of a development?
MCCANN: I think it's significant. I think that you're going to see, perhaps, a tracking of small crimes, petty crimes, maybe major crimes, capital offenses like this. As they made their way to the East Coast, they were trying to support themselves by any means. So, I think we'll see some more crimes as well linked to them.
ZAHN: Just based on the descriptions of what we've heard happened at that crime scene in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, does it surprise you if someone had the choice of weapons, which some investigators think Mr. Muhammad did allegedly at that point, that he would use a Bushmaster rifle so out in the open in this parking lot?
MCCANN: Well, certainly it's odd. I mean, normally, a smaller weapon more easily concealed is what you'd see in a robbery-type of situation. But again, trying to put this puzzle together and look inside his mind has been very difficult as it is.
ZAHN: Now, you were talking about how you think this opened up the investigation and blows it wide open. Let's talk about even police in Lansing, Michigan now revisiting an unsolved murder from way back in June of 2001. MCCANN: Absolutely. I mean, you know, again, they're going to look at ballistic evidence.
I brought a training round in with me, so I could kind of talk you though that and show you what they're looking for. But those pieces of evidence are going to be very, very important these days as they try to link the cases.
ZAHN: You can go through some of that info if you'd like.
MCCANN: Sure. If you look at this round right here, all rounds of ammunition are basically comprised of four components. You have a projectile, and then you have a casing, and then you have a firing pin, which would be at the very end here where I've got the black mark, and then the propellant. There are four different kinds of metals. The primer is steel, the casing is brass and the projectile is at least copper and lead.
The projectile, as this thing goes into the weapon, interacts with metal, and that's where the markings are left. First, the bolt face strikes the base of the round, putting a mark on it. And then, as it goes into the chamber, the extractor goes around this very, very small ridge at the very base here, leaving a tooling mark.
Then, of course, the firing pin hits the very base of it -- you can see where my small mark is dead center -- that has a fingerprint. At that point, the projective leaves the barrel, and as that projectile is pushed under very great pressure through the barrel, it interacts with lands (ph) and grooves, which basically rifle the round and keep it stable during its trajectory.
That is actually the fingerprint that we're looking at on all components of the bullet, both the casing and the projectile itself.
Now, when it impacts into anything hard, a mass, what you'll see then is, of course, deformity of the round, and usually, with this particular bullet, the copper jacket separates from the lead core. To the extent that that copper jacket is left intact and has those markings, which are created by the porosity of the barrel and the tooling marks when they cut the rifling, therein is the fingerprint that they'll check.
So, it is a very, very exact science, and it's all done microscopically, and it's very reliable.
ZAHN: Yes, what a roadmap it has given investigators.
Final question for you. A lot of being made of the fact we don't really know who fired which shots in which killings or in which shootings, but when you talk with relatives of John Lee Malvo, you are left with the impression that this is a kid that didn't show much interest in firearms. They describe him as nice, respectful, mannerly. Is it possible that he could have learned as recently as this summer how to fire the Bushmaster rifle?
MCCANN: Sure. Remember that the basic design of that rifle as a general service weapon was specifically designed so that all manner of people, regardless of their dexterity, regardless of the way that they are physically structured, could fire that weapon accurately. It's been the service rifle since the mid-'60s.
So, if you think about the millions of people who have had to use that weapon well, that's in fact why anybody could pick one up and make it work accurately.
ZAHN: J. Kelly McCann, as always, thanks for your expertise -- appreciate it.
MCCANN: Thanks, Paula.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.
