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American Morning

New Developments in Global War on Terror

Aired November 07, 2002 - 08:17   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: There are new developments this morning in the global war on terror. Police in Indonesia today say a suspect in their custody has admitted he was part of the group responsible for those deadly Bali bombings last month. A hundred and eighty people dead, mostly from Australia. And yesterday the U.S. Justice Department announced the arrests of three men, including one man from Pakistan, also a U.S. citizen from India and another Pakistani. The three men with alleged al Qaeda ties were taken into custody last month in Hong Kong on charges that they tried to trade drugs for weapons.
Kelli Arena now tracking this story. More on the deadly nexus of terrorism and worldwide drug trade.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Three men in police custody in Hong Kong are facing charges in the United States for allegedly trying to trade drugs for weapons for use by the al Qaeda terrorist network.

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: An indictment was unsealed this morning in San Diego charging two Pakistani nationals and one United States citizen with conspiring to provide stinger anti-aircraft missiles to anti-U.S. forces in Afghanistan.

ARENA: Stingers are shoulder fired U.S. made missiles often used to attack low flying aircraft. This is the first known arrest in Hong Kong of anyone with alleged ties to al Qaeda.

BRUCE HOFFMAN, RAND CORPORATION, TERRORISM EXPERT: It fits into a longstanding pattern of al Qaeda operations, is that when they're pressed or when they feel hemmed in in one particular geographical area of the world, they immediately turn to softer, what they see as more benign operational environments.

ARENA: The twin wars on drugs and terror are not confined to al Qaeda. In another alleged drugs for weapons scheme, U.S. agents arrested four people charged with plotting to deliver $25 million worth of weapons to the Columbian United Self-Defense forces known as the AUC.

ASA HUTCHISON, DEA: We have learned and we have demonstrated that drug traffickers and terrorists work out of the same jungle. They plan in the same cave and they train in the same desert.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ARENA: The connection between the drug trade and terrorism is not new. But terrorism experts say that it has taken on added importance as other income streams have been cut off. And the drug trade does have one lethal advantage -- constant demand.

Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

HEMMER: Drugs, weapons and terrorism, not a new combination, certainly. But how would Northern Alliance operation like that work and how much of a dent is the war on terror really putting in al Qaeda's operations right now?

Let's talk about that with Eric Margolis, an author and columnist for the Sun Media Group with us here in New York City.

Good to see you.

ERIC MARGOLIS, SUN MEDIA GROUP: Good morning.

HEMMER: Where does someone go out and acquire Stinger missiles on this planet today?

MARGOLIS: Well, back alleys. There is a black market for Stingers. There are about 100 Stinger missiles left over from the war in Afghanistan in the 1980s...

HEMMER: Only a hundred? I thought it would be much greater than that, actually.

MARGOLIS: Well, some estimates go as high as 300, but I think 100 that still work is a better estimate. They cost about $500,000 each. They're very effective. Our anti-aircraft missiles are the best. There are also Russian versions of this, the SA-7, 14, 16 and 18, that are pretty good. And China makes them. Ukraine makes them. Bulgaria makes them, Pakistan.

HEMMER: So there are a vast amount of options out there.

MARGOLIS: That's right.

HEMMER: Kelli talked about how deadly they can be. If you're a terrorist, how do you use something like this? And the image I have in my head is the worst case scenario. You go out to the end of a commercial airline runway and you wait for a plane.

MARGOLIS: You do. But these planes are -- these missiles are not very effective against huge aircraft like a 747. They're heat seekers that go up into the engine. They might take an engine out. They might bring down a big plane on takeoff. But they're very deadly against smaller aircraft and helicopters. We've seen in the last two months Chechen independence fighters have brought down five Russian helicopters in Chechnya using black market contraband missiles.

HEMMER: All created by the U.S. Defense Department.

What about China's cooperation in this? How critical is that? What is your take on that?

MARGOLIS: Interesting story. The, there are a group of Muslims in western China known as weegors (ph), the area used to be called Eastern Turkistan, who have been struggling for independence from China. And, claiming they're being inundated by Chinese settlers. The U.S. was considering using them against the Chinese and actually considered training them in Afghanistan under the Taliban. But when, after 9/11, China suddenly became an ally and the U.S. and China are now cooperating in anti-terrorist efforts and this sting in Hong Kong is probably a first example of it.

HEMMER: It is an amazing circle, is it not, as you trace this around the world?

MARGOLIS: Well, it is...

HEMMER: You see the historical ties and the ties that are coming together now.

MARGOLIS: It is, indeed.

HEMMER: Yes.

Let's talk about Yemen. On Sunday, a deadly Hellfire missile taking out six men, one believed to be responsible and perhaps the ringleader of the attack on the USS Cole going back a couple years ago. You disagree with this attack. Why?

MARGOLIS: Well, it worries me. It's been done, this is about the third or the fourth incident where the U.S. has tired to or succeeding in assassinating someone that it calls a terrorist or an enemy. And I don't know if it's right for a democracy to be sending out assassination teams or death squads or hit squads or whatever you want to call them.

HEMMER: Just, the official of the U.S. government says this was no assassination. It was a military operation, a defense operation. You also have cooperation from the security division of the Yemeni government. You had the highest cooperation with the Yemen government, as well. Why not, then, work that in concert and cooperation?

MARGOLIS: Well, because I was, as an American I was brought up not to, that our government doesn't assassinate people. You know, it's interesting, the Israelis have been doing this for quite some time. They call it targeted killings. And the U.S. has been criticizing Israel for doing now what it has started doing. And we are acting as judge, jury and executioner.

HEMMER: You see that pattern and process continuing?

MARGOLIS: I do. Continuing and accelerating. It's going to happen in Iraq and I think it could happen in other areas of Mideast.

HEMMER: Interesting issues.

Thank you.

Good to see you in person.

Eric Margolis for the Sun Media Group.

MARGOLIS: Thank you.

HEMMER: Better here than in Canada, which is where we normally see you.

MARGOLIS: A pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 7, 2002 - 08:17   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: There are new developments this morning in the global war on terror. Police in Indonesia today say a suspect in their custody has admitted he was part of the group responsible for those deadly Bali bombings last month. A hundred and eighty people dead, mostly from Australia. And yesterday the U.S. Justice Department announced the arrests of three men, including one man from Pakistan, also a U.S. citizen from India and another Pakistani. The three men with alleged al Qaeda ties were taken into custody last month in Hong Kong on charges that they tried to trade drugs for weapons.
Kelli Arena now tracking this story. More on the deadly nexus of terrorism and worldwide drug trade.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Three men in police custody in Hong Kong are facing charges in the United States for allegedly trying to trade drugs for weapons for use by the al Qaeda terrorist network.

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: An indictment was unsealed this morning in San Diego charging two Pakistani nationals and one United States citizen with conspiring to provide stinger anti-aircraft missiles to anti-U.S. forces in Afghanistan.

ARENA: Stingers are shoulder fired U.S. made missiles often used to attack low flying aircraft. This is the first known arrest in Hong Kong of anyone with alleged ties to al Qaeda.

BRUCE HOFFMAN, RAND CORPORATION, TERRORISM EXPERT: It fits into a longstanding pattern of al Qaeda operations, is that when they're pressed or when they feel hemmed in in one particular geographical area of the world, they immediately turn to softer, what they see as more benign operational environments.

ARENA: The twin wars on drugs and terror are not confined to al Qaeda. In another alleged drugs for weapons scheme, U.S. agents arrested four people charged with plotting to deliver $25 million worth of weapons to the Columbian United Self-Defense forces known as the AUC.

ASA HUTCHISON, DEA: We have learned and we have demonstrated that drug traffickers and terrorists work out of the same jungle. They plan in the same cave and they train in the same desert.

(END VIDEOTAPE) ARENA: The connection between the drug trade and terrorism is not new. But terrorism experts say that it has taken on added importance as other income streams have been cut off. And the drug trade does have one lethal advantage -- constant demand.

Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

HEMMER: Drugs, weapons and terrorism, not a new combination, certainly. But how would Northern Alliance operation like that work and how much of a dent is the war on terror really putting in al Qaeda's operations right now?

Let's talk about that with Eric Margolis, an author and columnist for the Sun Media Group with us here in New York City.

Good to see you.

ERIC MARGOLIS, SUN MEDIA GROUP: Good morning.

HEMMER: Where does someone go out and acquire Stinger missiles on this planet today?

MARGOLIS: Well, back alleys. There is a black market for Stingers. There are about 100 Stinger missiles left over from the war in Afghanistan in the 1980s...

HEMMER: Only a hundred? I thought it would be much greater than that, actually.

MARGOLIS: Well, some estimates go as high as 300, but I think 100 that still work is a better estimate. They cost about $500,000 each. They're very effective. Our anti-aircraft missiles are the best. There are also Russian versions of this, the SA-7, 14, 16 and 18, that are pretty good. And China makes them. Ukraine makes them. Bulgaria makes them, Pakistan.

HEMMER: So there are a vast amount of options out there.

MARGOLIS: That's right.

HEMMER: Kelli talked about how deadly they can be. If you're a terrorist, how do you use something like this? And the image I have in my head is the worst case scenario. You go out to the end of a commercial airline runway and you wait for a plane.

MARGOLIS: You do. But these planes are -- these missiles are not very effective against huge aircraft like a 747. They're heat seekers that go up into the engine. They might take an engine out. They might bring down a big plane on takeoff. But they're very deadly against smaller aircraft and helicopters. We've seen in the last two months Chechen independence fighters have brought down five Russian helicopters in Chechnya using black market contraband missiles.

HEMMER: All created by the U.S. Defense Department.

What about China's cooperation in this? How critical is that? What is your take on that?

MARGOLIS: Interesting story. The, there are a group of Muslims in western China known as weegors (ph), the area used to be called Eastern Turkistan, who have been struggling for independence from China. And, claiming they're being inundated by Chinese settlers. The U.S. was considering using them against the Chinese and actually considered training them in Afghanistan under the Taliban. But when, after 9/11, China suddenly became an ally and the U.S. and China are now cooperating in anti-terrorist efforts and this sting in Hong Kong is probably a first example of it.

HEMMER: It is an amazing circle, is it not, as you trace this around the world?

MARGOLIS: Well, it is...

HEMMER: You see the historical ties and the ties that are coming together now.

MARGOLIS: It is, indeed.

HEMMER: Yes.

Let's talk about Yemen. On Sunday, a deadly Hellfire missile taking out six men, one believed to be responsible and perhaps the ringleader of the attack on the USS Cole going back a couple years ago. You disagree with this attack. Why?

MARGOLIS: Well, it worries me. It's been done, this is about the third or the fourth incident where the U.S. has tired to or succeeding in assassinating someone that it calls a terrorist or an enemy. And I don't know if it's right for a democracy to be sending out assassination teams or death squads or hit squads or whatever you want to call them.

HEMMER: Just, the official of the U.S. government says this was no assassination. It was a military operation, a defense operation. You also have cooperation from the security division of the Yemeni government. You had the highest cooperation with the Yemen government, as well. Why not, then, work that in concert and cooperation?

MARGOLIS: Well, because I was, as an American I was brought up not to, that our government doesn't assassinate people. You know, it's interesting, the Israelis have been doing this for quite some time. They call it targeted killings. And the U.S. has been criticizing Israel for doing now what it has started doing. And we are acting as judge, jury and executioner.

HEMMER: You see that pattern and process continuing?

MARGOLIS: I do. Continuing and accelerating. It's going to happen in Iraq and I think it could happen in other areas of Mideast.

HEMMER: Interesting issues.

Thank you.

Good to see you in person.

Eric Margolis for the Sun Media Group.

MARGOLIS: Thank you.

HEMMER: Better here than in Canada, which is where we normally see you.

MARGOLIS: A pleasure.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com