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American Morning

Interview With Richard Butler

Aired November 13, 2002 - 07:18   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's turn our attention now to Iraq. The U.N. secretary general says this is Iraq's last chance to comply with U.N. mandates.
President Saddam Hussein has until Friday, 48 hours from now, to say that he will cooperate with weapons inspectors. But even if he does relent, what could inspectors do on the ground if obstacles are thrown in their path?

Such problems as those, all too familiar to Richard Butler, chief U.N. weapons inspector in Iraq -- a former inspector. Richard Butler is our guest now from Sydney, Australia, where it is nightfall there. We'll deal with the satellite delay here.

Richard, great to have you back with us.

One thing you make quite clear is that the inspectors have what you consider extreme powers, trumped-up powers that you did not have.

RICHARD BUTLER, FMR. CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: That's right.

HEMMER: Tell us why that will aid in this case.

BUTLER: Well, as I said earlier on, Bill, I wish we had those powers in the past. The inspectors really can now go anywhere, anytime, interview any person, seize any document, and indeed, remove Iraqi scientists from Iraq outside the country, so that they can be talked with, interviewed free from pressure from the Iraqi government.

All of these powers are exactly what is required, and I want to make this point very clear. If those powers are able to be exercised, there is no doubt in my mind that the inspectors will get an absolutely accurate assessment of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capability. But, Bill, the big question is, "if" -- if Iraq allows them to exercise those powers. They've not done it in the past, and we don't know whether they'll do it this time.

HEMMER: Richard, you mentioned that time element, though. Ralph Akayis (ph), a man you well know from the previous round of inspections, was quoted this week as saying that he does believe -- just like you stated -- that inspectors will indeed find everything need (ph) to account for.

BUTLER: That's right.

HEMMER: But in terms of that 60-day period set up by the U.N., he says, it's extremely tight and a very small window. He suggested it might take as long as two years. Do you agree with that assessment?

BUTLER: Well, there are four dates that come out of the resolution adopted a week ago, and the first of them is the one you referred to earlier -- that is 48 hours from now, Saddam has to indicate whether or not he's going to cooperate with the resolution.

But then, after that, the key date in my mind is in the middle of December. Around about the 7th or 10th of December, Iraq has to produce a declaration of all of its weapons of mass destruction and the capability to manufacture them. That's the crucial thing rather than the 60-day time that Ralph Akayis (ph) referred to, which is when the chief inspector will enter his first report to the Security Council.

I agree with Ralph (ph). That's important. But the crucial thing in my mind is the 30-day milestone -- that is the middle of December, Iraq has to lodge with the inspectorate a complete and accurate statement of its weapons of mass destruction.

Bill, I have no great confidence that Iraq will do that accurately. And that will be the crucial moment. The inspectors have the powers to assess that declaration very accurately. The United States has made very clear that it will be looking at that declaration under a microscope, and if it sees any lies or any deception, then the game will be up.

HEMMER: Yes, just about a minute left here, Richard -- two things. What do you think happens on Friday, No. 1? And second, with reference to your previous answer there, what's the trip wire that sets off military action, in your estimation?

BUTLER: The trip wire is any refusal to cooperate with Resolutions 40 and 41. The first time is Friday. I believe Saddam will say the people of the Parliament have spoken, they don't want this to happen, but I'm going to be the good guy, I'm going to cooperate with the international community. I believe he'll say, you can proceed.

The next trip wire is that declaration of all of their weapons of mass destruction. Saddam is in a place he's never quite been in before. It's been made very clear to him, you will fess up, you will tell the truth, you will put this stuff on the table or else. I don't think he will want to do that, and I see that as the next trip wire.

If the United States sees that that declaration is in any way inaccurate, Bill, it's over. It's over.

HEMMER: Thank you, Richard -- Richard Butler again with us from Sydney, Australia. Good to see you again.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.







Aired November 13, 2002 - 07:18   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Let's turn our attention now to Iraq. The U.N. secretary general says this is Iraq's last chance to comply with U.N. mandates.
President Saddam Hussein has until Friday, 48 hours from now, to say that he will cooperate with weapons inspectors. But even if he does relent, what could inspectors do on the ground if obstacles are thrown in their path?

Such problems as those, all too familiar to Richard Butler, chief U.N. weapons inspector in Iraq -- a former inspector. Richard Butler is our guest now from Sydney, Australia, where it is nightfall there. We'll deal with the satellite delay here.

Richard, great to have you back with us.

One thing you make quite clear is that the inspectors have what you consider extreme powers, trumped-up powers that you did not have.

RICHARD BUTLER, FMR. CHIEF U.N. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: That's right.

HEMMER: Tell us why that will aid in this case.

BUTLER: Well, as I said earlier on, Bill, I wish we had those powers in the past. The inspectors really can now go anywhere, anytime, interview any person, seize any document, and indeed, remove Iraqi scientists from Iraq outside the country, so that they can be talked with, interviewed free from pressure from the Iraqi government.

All of these powers are exactly what is required, and I want to make this point very clear. If those powers are able to be exercised, there is no doubt in my mind that the inspectors will get an absolutely accurate assessment of Iraq's weapons of mass destruction capability. But, Bill, the big question is, "if" -- if Iraq allows them to exercise those powers. They've not done it in the past, and we don't know whether they'll do it this time.

HEMMER: Richard, you mentioned that time element, though. Ralph Akayis (ph), a man you well know from the previous round of inspections, was quoted this week as saying that he does believe -- just like you stated -- that inspectors will indeed find everything need (ph) to account for.

BUTLER: That's right.

HEMMER: But in terms of that 60-day period set up by the U.N., he says, it's extremely tight and a very small window. He suggested it might take as long as two years. Do you agree with that assessment?

BUTLER: Well, there are four dates that come out of the resolution adopted a week ago, and the first of them is the one you referred to earlier -- that is 48 hours from now, Saddam has to indicate whether or not he's going to cooperate with the resolution.

But then, after that, the key date in my mind is in the middle of December. Around about the 7th or 10th of December, Iraq has to produce a declaration of all of its weapons of mass destruction and the capability to manufacture them. That's the crucial thing rather than the 60-day time that Ralph Akayis (ph) referred to, which is when the chief inspector will enter his first report to the Security Council.

I agree with Ralph (ph). That's important. But the crucial thing in my mind is the 30-day milestone -- that is the middle of December, Iraq has to lodge with the inspectorate a complete and accurate statement of its weapons of mass destruction.

Bill, I have no great confidence that Iraq will do that accurately. And that will be the crucial moment. The inspectors have the powers to assess that declaration very accurately. The United States has made very clear that it will be looking at that declaration under a microscope, and if it sees any lies or any deception, then the game will be up.

HEMMER: Yes, just about a minute left here, Richard -- two things. What do you think happens on Friday, No. 1? And second, with reference to your previous answer there, what's the trip wire that sets off military action, in your estimation?

BUTLER: The trip wire is any refusal to cooperate with Resolutions 40 and 41. The first time is Friday. I believe Saddam will say the people of the Parliament have spoken, they don't want this to happen, but I'm going to be the good guy, I'm going to cooperate with the international community. I believe he'll say, you can proceed.

The next trip wire is that declaration of all of their weapons of mass destruction. Saddam is in a place he's never quite been in before. It's been made very clear to him, you will fess up, you will tell the truth, you will put this stuff on the table or else. I don't think he will want to do that, and I see that as the next trip wire.

If the United States sees that that declaration is in any way inaccurate, Bill, it's over. It's over.

HEMMER: Thank you, Richard -- Richard Butler again with us from Sydney, Australia. Good to see you again.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.