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American Morning

Interview with Senator Richard Shelby

Aired November 14, 2002 - 07:33   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The creation of the homeland security department could be OKed by the Senate within a few days, after the House made its move on the same plan. The plan moved a step closer to reality last night when it was passed easily by the House of Reps. It seems none too soon to take major security steps with the threatening tape raising the specter of terrorist attacks and the prospect of war against Iraq.
For more on these issues, let's turn now to the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Richard Shelby. He joins us from Washington.

Welcome back, Senator.

Good to have you with us.

SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R-AL), VICE CHAIRMAN, SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: Can you tell us what you make of this latest FBI warning as it relates to hospitals?

SHELBY: I think hospitals would be a very soft target. We would hope no one would ever try to blow up a hospital with patients and people in it, but terrorists would. I think that as we ratchet up toward Iraq, we have to believe that there will be attempts in this country anywhere, perhaps everywhere, to do us harm.

ZAHN: So what should the cities of Houston, Chicago, San Francisco and Washington, D.C. be doing at this hour based on this threat?

SHELBY: Well, I think they should beef up security around the hospitals, in the hospitals, be aware of terrorists looking for soft targets. They will change their tactics as they need to be, but I believe that the signals that came out of the tape dealing with Osama bin Laden are real. Most of the analysts dealing with the analytic component there saying they think it's a significant signal.

ZAHN: And there is no doubt in your mind this morning that's what the tape implied?

SHELBY: I believe that's what it is. That's what the word is out of the intelligence community. But this is not, Paula, an exact science. They will continue to examine every aspect of this tape for signals, for authenticity and everything. But I believe it's the judgment now that it is authentic. ZAHN: Do you think it also, based on what Osama bin Laden said on this tape about some of these latest terrorist bogs, that he is, indeed, associated with what happened in Yemen, perhaps, or Bali?

SHELBY: One way or the other, of course, he would try to take credit for a lot of things, but we have to go back and recall that there were thousands of terrorists trained by Osama bin Laden's group in Afghanistan. And they are now dispersed all over the world. So there are affiliations. Does he have direct control of these groups? I'm not sure. But there are strong affiliations. They have generally the same motives.

ZAHN: Based on what your experts tell you, does this tape give us any more clues as to where Osama bin Laden is and who he's working with?

SHELBY: Well, I don't know at this point and if we got clues there, I would hope the intelligence community would keep that close, because that, they would need to pursue those clues. But the fact that he has, assuming this is authentic, as most people believe now, that he is alive, the message is to his people in the world, specifically and perhaps generally, I'm alive, I've survived, I'm going to be back and we're going to do you harm.

ZAHN: You mentioned at the top of the interview that based on this latest FBI warning about these threats at four specific city hospitals in this nation that we've got to be very concerned about soft targets, particularly when the U.S. is getting prepared for the possibility of another war, a war against Iraq.

SHELBY: Absolutely.

ZAHN: Let's listen to what your colleague Bob Graham had to say about the possibility of two wars going on at the same time.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BOB GRAHAM (D-FL), INTELLIGENCE CHAIRMAN: I think so much focus is going into getting ready for the war against Saddam Hussein that the war against terrorists, and particularly those terrorists that have the capability of attacking Americans here at home, has taken a second place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: How vulnerable are we, Senator?

SHELBY: We're vulnerable. It's been said by some people in authority, Brent Scowcroft, former national security adviser, that the safest place, in his judgment, for terrorists is probably in the United States of America. And why? Because we're an open society, because we protect people's rights here. And that is one of our strengths. But it also gives us vulnerability. Now, what Senator Graham said, we're friends and we work together. I don't necessarily agree with his conclusion. We have to fight wars as they face us. If we have to fight the war in Iraq, so be it, because in the long run, perhaps not the short run, but the long run Saddam Hussein poses a real threat, not only to our interests in the Persian Gulf, but to everyone.

If he has, and he will acquire if he stays in power, a nuclear option, nuclear capability, that will change the whole dynamic in the Persian Gulf and the Middle East. Would we be thinking about going in there if we knew he had four, fix, six, 10, 15 nuclear weapons? I doubt it. We have to be, get rid of this man. We've got to get rid of this regime because I think at the end of the day, he's not going to comply with the U.N. inspectors. He's going to cheat and break every agreement he's ever agreed to.

ZAHN: So...

SHELBY: I think we can fight. I think we can fight. We must fight the war on terrorism. But we have to fight anything else that's a threat to our security.

ZAHN: But if you take military action against Iraq, you're saying you don't, then, agree with Senator Graham that we, that the Americans here at home take second place in their security?

SHELBY: No, I don't, because I think we cannot take second place. I think you can have parallel movements and this is certainly one. The war against terrorism is probably going to go on, Paula, as the president's reminded us, a generation or so. The war in Iraq, I believe if there is one, will not last long.

ZAHN: Senator Richard Shelby, as always, good to see you.

SHELBY: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: We really appreciate your spending some time with us this morning. Take care. Good luck with your work on the homeland security bill. It's coming down to the wire.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 14, 2002 - 07:33   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: The creation of the homeland security department could be OKed by the Senate within a few days, after the House made its move on the same plan. The plan moved a step closer to reality last night when it was passed easily by the House of Reps. It seems none too soon to take major security steps with the threatening tape raising the specter of terrorist attacks and the prospect of war against Iraq.
For more on these issues, let's turn now to the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Richard Shelby. He joins us from Washington.

Welcome back, Senator.

Good to have you with us.

SEN. RICHARD SHELBY (R-AL), VICE CHAIRMAN, SENATE INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Good morning, Paula.

ZAHN: Can you tell us what you make of this latest FBI warning as it relates to hospitals?

SHELBY: I think hospitals would be a very soft target. We would hope no one would ever try to blow up a hospital with patients and people in it, but terrorists would. I think that as we ratchet up toward Iraq, we have to believe that there will be attempts in this country anywhere, perhaps everywhere, to do us harm.

ZAHN: So what should the cities of Houston, Chicago, San Francisco and Washington, D.C. be doing at this hour based on this threat?

SHELBY: Well, I think they should beef up security around the hospitals, in the hospitals, be aware of terrorists looking for soft targets. They will change their tactics as they need to be, but I believe that the signals that came out of the tape dealing with Osama bin Laden are real. Most of the analysts dealing with the analytic component there saying they think it's a significant signal.

ZAHN: And there is no doubt in your mind this morning that's what the tape implied?

SHELBY: I believe that's what it is. That's what the word is out of the intelligence community. But this is not, Paula, an exact science. They will continue to examine every aspect of this tape for signals, for authenticity and everything. But I believe it's the judgment now that it is authentic. ZAHN: Do you think it also, based on what Osama bin Laden said on this tape about some of these latest terrorist bogs, that he is, indeed, associated with what happened in Yemen, perhaps, or Bali?

SHELBY: One way or the other, of course, he would try to take credit for a lot of things, but we have to go back and recall that there were thousands of terrorists trained by Osama bin Laden's group in Afghanistan. And they are now dispersed all over the world. So there are affiliations. Does he have direct control of these groups? I'm not sure. But there are strong affiliations. They have generally the same motives.

ZAHN: Based on what your experts tell you, does this tape give us any more clues as to where Osama bin Laden is and who he's working with?

SHELBY: Well, I don't know at this point and if we got clues there, I would hope the intelligence community would keep that close, because that, they would need to pursue those clues. But the fact that he has, assuming this is authentic, as most people believe now, that he is alive, the message is to his people in the world, specifically and perhaps generally, I'm alive, I've survived, I'm going to be back and we're going to do you harm.

ZAHN: You mentioned at the top of the interview that based on this latest FBI warning about these threats at four specific city hospitals in this nation that we've got to be very concerned about soft targets, particularly when the U.S. is getting prepared for the possibility of another war, a war against Iraq.

SHELBY: Absolutely.

ZAHN: Let's listen to what your colleague Bob Graham had to say about the possibility of two wars going on at the same time.

Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BOB GRAHAM (D-FL), INTELLIGENCE CHAIRMAN: I think so much focus is going into getting ready for the war against Saddam Hussein that the war against terrorists, and particularly those terrorists that have the capability of attacking Americans here at home, has taken a second place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZAHN: How vulnerable are we, Senator?

SHELBY: We're vulnerable. It's been said by some people in authority, Brent Scowcroft, former national security adviser, that the safest place, in his judgment, for terrorists is probably in the United States of America. And why? Because we're an open society, because we protect people's rights here. And that is one of our strengths. But it also gives us vulnerability. Now, what Senator Graham said, we're friends and we work together. I don't necessarily agree with his conclusion. We have to fight wars as they face us. If we have to fight the war in Iraq, so be it, because in the long run, perhaps not the short run, but the long run Saddam Hussein poses a real threat, not only to our interests in the Persian Gulf, but to everyone.

If he has, and he will acquire if he stays in power, a nuclear option, nuclear capability, that will change the whole dynamic in the Persian Gulf and the Middle East. Would we be thinking about going in there if we knew he had four, fix, six, 10, 15 nuclear weapons? I doubt it. We have to be, get rid of this man. We've got to get rid of this regime because I think at the end of the day, he's not going to comply with the U.N. inspectors. He's going to cheat and break every agreement he's ever agreed to.

ZAHN: So...

SHELBY: I think we can fight. I think we can fight. We must fight the war on terrorism. But we have to fight anything else that's a threat to our security.

ZAHN: But if you take military action against Iraq, you're saying you don't, then, agree with Senator Graham that we, that the Americans here at home take second place in their security?

SHELBY: No, I don't, because I think we cannot take second place. I think you can have parallel movements and this is certainly one. The war against terrorism is probably going to go on, Paula, as the president's reminded us, a generation or so. The war in Iraq, I believe if there is one, will not last long.

ZAHN: Senator Richard Shelby, as always, good to see you.

SHELBY: Thank you, Paula.

ZAHN: We really appreciate your spending some time with us this morning. Take care. Good luck with your work on the homeland security bill. It's coming down to the wire.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com