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American Morning

Minors & Major Crimes

Aired November 15, 2002 - 10:10   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: John Lee Malvo was one of several juveniles to pose legal questions and quandaries, because they are under the age of 18. Our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin takes a closer look with us at minors and major crimes in the news.
Jeff, good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Daryn.

KAGAN: Good morning to you.

Let's look at Malvo first. Juvenile or not a juvenile? He's about as close to the edge you can be before he turns an adult?

TOOBIN: Right, and that's bad news for him in the legal system. What's really interesting here, is that right before the sniper spree started, the Supreme Court had a chance to address this very issue. You remember last spring, in something of a surprise, the Supreme Court ruled that people with -- who are mentally retarded could not be executed. Some people thought, and certainly death penalty opponents thought, they would expand that and say, well, juveniles can't be executed either.

But in a case that just came out in October, the court declined to take on the issue of prohibiting execution of juveniles. So as far as the Supreme Court is concerned, execution of juveniles, at least in general, can continue.

KAGAN: And of course, there are many charges and prosecutions he will face, the first in Virginia, a state which has no problem with going after the death penalty for juveniles.

TOOBIN: Right. Like most death penalty rules, it varies by state. Maryland, as many of us now know, does not allow execution of juveniles, and it's clearly one reason why Attorney General Ashcroft originally sent the case originally to Virginia. Virginia does allow execution of juveniles. Eighty-six people who have been executed in Virginia since the death penalty came back in 1976, and I believe three of them were people who were juveniles when they committed their crime.

KAGAN: Let's move on to Pensacola, Florida and the case of the King brothers. Alex and Derek King, 13 and 14 years old, accused, actually convicted of killing their own father, but a situation, that I think it's safe to say, was not the prosecutor's finest hour.

TOOBIN: It was certainly a bizarre case, because as you recall, the prosecutors' charged Ricky Chavez, who was a so-called family friend, convicted child molester, of committing the same crime, murdering the boys' father. He was acquitted; the boys were convicted. The judge said, you know, it's bizarre to go forward with two different theories, it's unfair. And then in something really extraordinary, he said to the parties in the boys' case, reach a plea bargain, work this out, I don't want to see this case anymore, and they did.

KAGAN: And they did that as of yesterday. And so Derek, who is 14 years old, is going to state prison for eight years. Alex, who is 13, is going for seven years. He's going to be the youngest person in the state prison system in the state of Florida.

TOOBIN: I think a lot of us spent a good deal of time thinking how horrible it was for the kids facing the possibility of life in prison without parole, because that was the charge they were looking at.

But it's also worth remembering, they have now pled guilty to an absolutely horrible crime. I mean, they beat their fatter to death with a baseball bat, and seven and eight years. I mean, it seems to me that's the least they can get and be a reasonable sentence. So I think the boys did pretty well in this whole situation.

KAGAN: Well, and you mentioned Ricky Chavez, he is the family friend. Friends like that, I mean, you can figure that out, but he still faces two trials, including charges that he molested Alex. And Alex is going to testify at both of these trials, as I understand it.

TOOBIN: And it is worth pointing out that Ricky Chavez remains in prison pending those charges, so he is not going anywhere, and he is looking at a very, very long sentence if he's convicted in those cases. So even though Ricky Chavez was acquitted of the murder, as it seems appropriate, as the boys have now plead guilty, he is very likely to go to prison for a very long time.

KAGAN: Jeff Toobin, thanks for your expertise on this Friday morning. Appreciate it.

TOOBIN: Have a good weekend.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com






Aired November 15, 2002 - 10:10   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DARYN KAGAN, CNN ANCHOR: John Lee Malvo was one of several juveniles to pose legal questions and quandaries, because they are under the age of 18. Our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin takes a closer look with us at minors and major crimes in the news.
Jeff, good morning.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Hi, Daryn.

KAGAN: Good morning to you.

Let's look at Malvo first. Juvenile or not a juvenile? He's about as close to the edge you can be before he turns an adult?

TOOBIN: Right, and that's bad news for him in the legal system. What's really interesting here, is that right before the sniper spree started, the Supreme Court had a chance to address this very issue. You remember last spring, in something of a surprise, the Supreme Court ruled that people with -- who are mentally retarded could not be executed. Some people thought, and certainly death penalty opponents thought, they would expand that and say, well, juveniles can't be executed either.

But in a case that just came out in October, the court declined to take on the issue of prohibiting execution of juveniles. So as far as the Supreme Court is concerned, execution of juveniles, at least in general, can continue.

KAGAN: And of course, there are many charges and prosecutions he will face, the first in Virginia, a state which has no problem with going after the death penalty for juveniles.

TOOBIN: Right. Like most death penalty rules, it varies by state. Maryland, as many of us now know, does not allow execution of juveniles, and it's clearly one reason why Attorney General Ashcroft originally sent the case originally to Virginia. Virginia does allow execution of juveniles. Eighty-six people who have been executed in Virginia since the death penalty came back in 1976, and I believe three of them were people who were juveniles when they committed their crime.

KAGAN: Let's move on to Pensacola, Florida and the case of the King brothers. Alex and Derek King, 13 and 14 years old, accused, actually convicted of killing their own father, but a situation, that I think it's safe to say, was not the prosecutor's finest hour.

TOOBIN: It was certainly a bizarre case, because as you recall, the prosecutors' charged Ricky Chavez, who was a so-called family friend, convicted child molester, of committing the same crime, murdering the boys' father. He was acquitted; the boys were convicted. The judge said, you know, it's bizarre to go forward with two different theories, it's unfair. And then in something really extraordinary, he said to the parties in the boys' case, reach a plea bargain, work this out, I don't want to see this case anymore, and they did.

KAGAN: And they did that as of yesterday. And so Derek, who is 14 years old, is going to state prison for eight years. Alex, who is 13, is going for seven years. He's going to be the youngest person in the state prison system in the state of Florida.

TOOBIN: I think a lot of us spent a good deal of time thinking how horrible it was for the kids facing the possibility of life in prison without parole, because that was the charge they were looking at.

But it's also worth remembering, they have now pled guilty to an absolutely horrible crime. I mean, they beat their fatter to death with a baseball bat, and seven and eight years. I mean, it seems to me that's the least they can get and be a reasonable sentence. So I think the boys did pretty well in this whole situation.

KAGAN: Well, and you mentioned Ricky Chavez, he is the family friend. Friends like that, I mean, you can figure that out, but he still faces two trials, including charges that he molested Alex. And Alex is going to testify at both of these trials, as I understand it.

TOOBIN: And it is worth pointing out that Ricky Chavez remains in prison pending those charges, so he is not going anywhere, and he is looking at a very, very long sentence if he's convicted in those cases. So even though Ricky Chavez was acquitted of the murder, as it seems appropriate, as the boys have now plead guilty, he is very likely to go to prison for a very long time.

KAGAN: Jeff Toobin, thanks for your expertise on this Friday morning. Appreciate it.

TOOBIN: Have a good weekend.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com