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American Morning
President Bush Continues Tour in Russia
Aired November 22, 2002 - 08:16 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Once again, President Bush continues his tour in Russia, in Europe all week, in fact, hoping to reassure the president there, Vladimir Putin, that NATO's expansion to Russia's western border poses no threat to that country. Part of the president's trip also aimed at building support for his policies regarding Iraq.
And our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield, fresh from a trip overseas in Europe is back with us -- good to see you again.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello.
HEMMER: I think part of this European skepticism is probably not going to take a lot of people by surprise in this country.
GREENFIELD: Correct.
HEMMER: What is your sense, though, in talking to people? How real is it? How much concern is there because of it?
GREENFIELD: Well, I think among European elites, and this is traditional, there is skepticism, and a lot of it is based on the fact that Europeans -- if you look at their history, you'll understand why -- don't believe protestations of U.S. intentions in Iraq. I think there's a lot of suspicion that it's not about human rights, it's about oil or strategic considerations rather, even, than fear about Saddam's intentions or his wretched human rights record.
I mean Europeans just frankly don't traditionally care that much about that.
HEMMER: Yes, I wonder if there's a hangover there from 9/11, in this country, the way we view it, as opposed to how the Europeans see it?
GREENFIELD: To some extent...
HEMMER: Because that feeling was really strong after 9/11 all throughout European capitals, and it appears to have waned significantly in some parts now.
GREENFIELD: Yes, part of that's just the fading of that shock. And I also think part of it, you know, you look at George W. Bush, he came into office with some well known doubts about multilateralism. He had a go it alone rhetoric. But even now, he's gone to the U.N., he's gotten a unanimous resolution about Iraq, and I think there's a more general doubt that it's not unique to President Bush. And that is that -- and this is my belief -- Europeans don't understand American politics.
They never get how someone who's not from the center of national affairs can rise to the presidency. You know, a Georgia peanut farmer named Carter, an Arkansas governor named Clinton, an ex-actor named Reagan, they don't get that. The only recent president Europeans could identify with was the first Bush, CIA director, U.N. envoy, you know, vice president. That they got.
And lastly, I think we're the big guys on the block and that will always cause some resentment. I mean every one of these European nations at one time or another, they were the center of the universe -- the Netherlands, Spain, Germany, Britain. Now it's the United States, whether -- and we're talking here whether militarily or economically. I mean we're the puppet master in a lot of their eyes, and that goes to whether or not we're about to go into military action or opening a Starbucks. They just see us as a sign of imperial hunger.
HEMMER: I wonder if your point prior to that, though, is that borne out of countries that are borne out of a monarchy as opposed to a democracy that we have here?
GREENFIELD: I think Europeans have never gotten the fact that this is a populist country in the sense of even though Bush is the son of a president, Clinton wasn't, Carter wasn't, Reagan wasn't. We get people from outside, and that's an asset. In Europe, that's, it's unimaginable that a guy with that kind of track record could suddenly rise to the presidency.
HEMMER: Yes. We know about disagreements, too, in other areas, specifically the Middle East. The Europeans have traditionally, historically over the past 50 years, been, some would argue, in support of the Palestinian cause as opposed to the Israeli cause, and the U.S. has taken, in essence, a converse role.
GREENFIELD: Right.
HEMMER: What do you see in terms of that right now and how it aligns and may fit into all of this?
GREENFIELD: There is no question, I think, that, you know, that the gap is enormous. To most Americans, Jewish and now Jewish, Israel is the lone democracy in the Middle East and it's constantly fighting of for its life. I think Europeans tend to see Israel through the lens of their own colonial history. Just about every European nation had colonies at one time or another, and for many of them Israel, you know, mostly European descent, because they were either, if they were those that weren't killed and driven out of Europe. And its ally, the mighty U.S., is seen as an occupying force.
So a terrorist act like a suicide bombing, I think, tends to be soft pedaled in a lot of European media, while any Israeli military action is almost reflexively condemned. And I've got to make one more point. We're always accused by Europeans, the United States, of being isolationist. And yet from WWI to WWII to the Marshal Plan to NATO to the Balkan actions in the '90s, there has been a remarkable willingness in the United States, this supposedly isolationist nation, frankly, to pull Europe's chestnuts out of the fire when they fail to act. And you very, you don't hear a lot about that over there.
I know I sound like an American Legion commander, but I think history will show that that's right.
HEMMER: Yes, I think Vaslav Havel came as close to that this past week as we have heard in some time.
GREENFIELD: Yes.
HEMMER: When the Czech president essentially came out and said this is our time to prove what this new organization is all about, especially when you consider it's on the eastern border when you're looking at Iraq.
GREENFIELD: Yes.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jeff.
GREENFIELD: OK.
HEMMER: Welcome home.
GREENFIELD: Nice to be home.
HEMMER: All right.
GREENFIELD: Nice to be home.
HEMMER: Good to have you.
Here's Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: In another segment you can tell us where you traveled to.
HEMMER: Fun. Um-hmm.
GREENFIELD: I've sold that to the Travel Channel, actually.
ZAHN: Well, we'll wait until you're promoting the trip and we'll bring you back. We're jealous.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 22, 2002 - 08:16 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Once again, President Bush continues his tour in Russia, in Europe all week, in fact, hoping to reassure the president there, Vladimir Putin, that NATO's expansion to Russia's western border poses no threat to that country. Part of the president's trip also aimed at building support for his policies regarding Iraq.
And our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield, fresh from a trip overseas in Europe is back with us -- good to see you again.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello.
HEMMER: I think part of this European skepticism is probably not going to take a lot of people by surprise in this country.
GREENFIELD: Correct.
HEMMER: What is your sense, though, in talking to people? How real is it? How much concern is there because of it?
GREENFIELD: Well, I think among European elites, and this is traditional, there is skepticism, and a lot of it is based on the fact that Europeans -- if you look at their history, you'll understand why -- don't believe protestations of U.S. intentions in Iraq. I think there's a lot of suspicion that it's not about human rights, it's about oil or strategic considerations rather, even, than fear about Saddam's intentions or his wretched human rights record.
I mean Europeans just frankly don't traditionally care that much about that.
HEMMER: Yes, I wonder if there's a hangover there from 9/11, in this country, the way we view it, as opposed to how the Europeans see it?
GREENFIELD: To some extent...
HEMMER: Because that feeling was really strong after 9/11 all throughout European capitals, and it appears to have waned significantly in some parts now.
GREENFIELD: Yes, part of that's just the fading of that shock. And I also think part of it, you know, you look at George W. Bush, he came into office with some well known doubts about multilateralism. He had a go it alone rhetoric. But even now, he's gone to the U.N., he's gotten a unanimous resolution about Iraq, and I think there's a more general doubt that it's not unique to President Bush. And that is that -- and this is my belief -- Europeans don't understand American politics.
They never get how someone who's not from the center of national affairs can rise to the presidency. You know, a Georgia peanut farmer named Carter, an Arkansas governor named Clinton, an ex-actor named Reagan, they don't get that. The only recent president Europeans could identify with was the first Bush, CIA director, U.N. envoy, you know, vice president. That they got.
And lastly, I think we're the big guys on the block and that will always cause some resentment. I mean every one of these European nations at one time or another, they were the center of the universe -- the Netherlands, Spain, Germany, Britain. Now it's the United States, whether -- and we're talking here whether militarily or economically. I mean we're the puppet master in a lot of their eyes, and that goes to whether or not we're about to go into military action or opening a Starbucks. They just see us as a sign of imperial hunger.
HEMMER: I wonder if your point prior to that, though, is that borne out of countries that are borne out of a monarchy as opposed to a democracy that we have here?
GREENFIELD: I think Europeans have never gotten the fact that this is a populist country in the sense of even though Bush is the son of a president, Clinton wasn't, Carter wasn't, Reagan wasn't. We get people from outside, and that's an asset. In Europe, that's, it's unimaginable that a guy with that kind of track record could suddenly rise to the presidency.
HEMMER: Yes. We know about disagreements, too, in other areas, specifically the Middle East. The Europeans have traditionally, historically over the past 50 years, been, some would argue, in support of the Palestinian cause as opposed to the Israeli cause, and the U.S. has taken, in essence, a converse role.
GREENFIELD: Right.
HEMMER: What do you see in terms of that right now and how it aligns and may fit into all of this?
GREENFIELD: There is no question, I think, that, you know, that the gap is enormous. To most Americans, Jewish and now Jewish, Israel is the lone democracy in the Middle East and it's constantly fighting of for its life. I think Europeans tend to see Israel through the lens of their own colonial history. Just about every European nation had colonies at one time or another, and for many of them Israel, you know, mostly European descent, because they were either, if they were those that weren't killed and driven out of Europe. And its ally, the mighty U.S., is seen as an occupying force.
So a terrorist act like a suicide bombing, I think, tends to be soft pedaled in a lot of European media, while any Israeli military action is almost reflexively condemned. And I've got to make one more point. We're always accused by Europeans, the United States, of being isolationist. And yet from WWI to WWII to the Marshal Plan to NATO to the Balkan actions in the '90s, there has been a remarkable willingness in the United States, this supposedly isolationist nation, frankly, to pull Europe's chestnuts out of the fire when they fail to act. And you very, you don't hear a lot about that over there.
I know I sound like an American Legion commander, but I think history will show that that's right.
HEMMER: Yes, I think Vaslav Havel came as close to that this past week as we have heard in some time.
GREENFIELD: Yes.
HEMMER: When the Czech president essentially came out and said this is our time to prove what this new organization is all about, especially when you consider it's on the eastern border when you're looking at Iraq.
GREENFIELD: Yes.
HEMMER: Thank you, Jeff.
GREENFIELD: OK.
HEMMER: Welcome home.
GREENFIELD: Nice to be home.
HEMMER: All right.
GREENFIELD: Nice to be home.
HEMMER: Good to have you.
Here's Paula.
PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: In another segment you can tell us where you traveled to.
HEMMER: Fun. Um-hmm.
GREENFIELD: I've sold that to the Travel Channel, actually.
ZAHN: Well, we'll wait until you're promoting the trip and we'll bring you back. We're jealous.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
