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American Morning
Inspections Under Way
Aired November 27, 2002 - 10:10 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: We want to know more about exactly what happened inside on those inspections. Joining us right now is a Michael Lysobey, a former weapons inspectors for the United Nations who was one of the last inspectors in Iraq four years ago.
Mr. Lysobey, thanks so much for joining us.
MICHAEL LYSOBEY, FMR. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: My pleasure.
LIN: By the description of the site, it sounded like a graphite rod factory about 25 miles southwest of Baghdad, military run. Is this the sort if site -- have you about to this site before? Did you recognize anything from those pictures?
LYSOBEY: I did not see the pictures. I also have not been to that specific site, but that certainly is the type of site that is within the mandate and what we can expect to see.
LIN: All right. Take us inside, into the process of what happened. The journalists weren't allowed inside when the weapons inspectors went in. But when they initially approach a site, what do they do first inside?
LYSOBEY: Well, when you initially approach a site -- at this point, they've only got 17 inspectors notice country, so there's a limitation on what they can do and the size of site that they can inspect at this point. But as they get more inspectors in country, they'll have more sophisticated and complicated inspections. They're going to want to approach the site, contain the site, make sure there are no vehicle movements unaccounted for, that there are no individuals leaving and begin inspections.
LIN: And how do they do that? Because according to Nic, they spent three hours inside this factory, but they didn't take anything out.
LYSOBEY: Well, the inspectors have had four years to develop a game plan. They've developed a list of target sites, they know what they're looking for as they go into these sites. It could be that they're looking for documentation. It could be that they're looking for actual components of the weapons or the weapons systems.
LIN: We're a showing a map, by the way, of the Al-Rafah facility, just in relation to where it is to Baghdad.
But, please, go ahead. Mr. Lysobey. LYSOBEY: And so they're looking for a number of different things, and if they don't find anything, that can also be a step forward. The idea is to get an idea of what the status of the weapons programs are. If we find things or if we don't find things, both of those can be positive results.
The negative result is if there's noncompliance or if the Iraqis don't allow the inspections to take place in.
LIN: Right, why do you think they picked this particular site?
LYSOBEY: At this point, they're getting their feet wet, they're working out kinks. They're working -- it sounds like they've picked a couple of sites within Baghdad or very close to Baghdad, and I think that's a good idea. It's a very intimidating process. It's a psychologically demanding process. And so if they start with a couple of sites that have been inspected before, it will allow the inspectors to begin to feel comfortable with their position and with the work that they have in front of them.
LIN: One of the things that I couldn't really make out and something I read in one of the reports is that the inspectors are making their decisions on some of these sites based on what the Iraqis are telling them.
LYSOBEY: Right.
LIN: Who are they talking to, and how do they know they can trust what they're being told by the Iraqis?
LYSOBEY: Well, this is within the mandate. The whole idea at the very beginning was that the Iraqis would present a declaration, and the weapons inspectors would go in and confirm that the declaration is full, and complete and correct. So that's what the inspectors are doing.
As the inspection process developed, we realized that there was a concealment mechanism, and that things were hidden from the inspectors.
At that point, we started to get more information from member states and from the inspections themselves. So it makes a lot of sense that they're going on what the Iraqis are giving them. We have to determine whether or not the declarations are true and complete.
LIN: Is it possible, Mr. Lysobey, to actually sanitize a site, though? A former weapons inspector told me that he was doubtful about this process because the Iraqis would have the capability to actually remove all trace of weapons manufacturing there.
We did hear in other reports that there were swabs and swipes taken out of this particular site.
LYSOBEY: Right. I think that when you talk about sanitizing a site, it really has two types of meanings -- two meanings. One would be sanitizing it of the documentation of the weapons programs, getting rid of all the documents. It's a problem that UNSCOM ran into, and it's been presented to the Security Council as such.
Another sanitizing would be getting rid of all traces of the weapons agents. There is advanced technology and new devices that these inspectors are taking in which will allow them to determine with more specificity while they're on the site whether or not weapons were actually being developed there.
LIN: It's remarkable how technology has improved where you might have used a room full of computers to analyze something, they now have these hand-held wands. It's amazing.
LYSOBEY: Absolutely. I think one of the things to remember is that we've got these new advanced technologies, which are going to make things easier for us. The Iraqis, on the other hand, have had eight years of experience with UNSCOM to develop their concealment mechanisms and another four years to presumably develop their weapons program and perfect their concealment mechanisms even more. So that's going to be the challenge, I think, for the inspectors.
LIN: A big challenge, indeed. All right, thank you very much, Michael Lysobey, former U.N. weapons inspector for joining us today.
LYSOBEY: Thank you, Carol.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired November 27, 2002 - 10:10 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: We want to know more about exactly what happened inside on those inspections. Joining us right now is a Michael Lysobey, a former weapons inspectors for the United Nations who was one of the last inspectors in Iraq four years ago.
Mr. Lysobey, thanks so much for joining us.
MICHAEL LYSOBEY, FMR. WEAPONS INSPECTOR: My pleasure.
LIN: By the description of the site, it sounded like a graphite rod factory about 25 miles southwest of Baghdad, military run. Is this the sort if site -- have you about to this site before? Did you recognize anything from those pictures?
LYSOBEY: I did not see the pictures. I also have not been to that specific site, but that certainly is the type of site that is within the mandate and what we can expect to see.
LIN: All right. Take us inside, into the process of what happened. The journalists weren't allowed inside when the weapons inspectors went in. But when they initially approach a site, what do they do first inside?
LYSOBEY: Well, when you initially approach a site -- at this point, they've only got 17 inspectors notice country, so there's a limitation on what they can do and the size of site that they can inspect at this point. But as they get more inspectors in country, they'll have more sophisticated and complicated inspections. They're going to want to approach the site, contain the site, make sure there are no vehicle movements unaccounted for, that there are no individuals leaving and begin inspections.
LIN: And how do they do that? Because according to Nic, they spent three hours inside this factory, but they didn't take anything out.
LYSOBEY: Well, the inspectors have had four years to develop a game plan. They've developed a list of target sites, they know what they're looking for as they go into these sites. It could be that they're looking for documentation. It could be that they're looking for actual components of the weapons or the weapons systems.
LIN: We're a showing a map, by the way, of the Al-Rafah facility, just in relation to where it is to Baghdad.
But, please, go ahead. Mr. Lysobey. LYSOBEY: And so they're looking for a number of different things, and if they don't find anything, that can also be a step forward. The idea is to get an idea of what the status of the weapons programs are. If we find things or if we don't find things, both of those can be positive results.
The negative result is if there's noncompliance or if the Iraqis don't allow the inspections to take place in.
LIN: Right, why do you think they picked this particular site?
LYSOBEY: At this point, they're getting their feet wet, they're working out kinks. They're working -- it sounds like they've picked a couple of sites within Baghdad or very close to Baghdad, and I think that's a good idea. It's a very intimidating process. It's a psychologically demanding process. And so if they start with a couple of sites that have been inspected before, it will allow the inspectors to begin to feel comfortable with their position and with the work that they have in front of them.
LIN: One of the things that I couldn't really make out and something I read in one of the reports is that the inspectors are making their decisions on some of these sites based on what the Iraqis are telling them.
LYSOBEY: Right.
LIN: Who are they talking to, and how do they know they can trust what they're being told by the Iraqis?
LYSOBEY: Well, this is within the mandate. The whole idea at the very beginning was that the Iraqis would present a declaration, and the weapons inspectors would go in and confirm that the declaration is full, and complete and correct. So that's what the inspectors are doing.
As the inspection process developed, we realized that there was a concealment mechanism, and that things were hidden from the inspectors.
At that point, we started to get more information from member states and from the inspections themselves. So it makes a lot of sense that they're going on what the Iraqis are giving them. We have to determine whether or not the declarations are true and complete.
LIN: Is it possible, Mr. Lysobey, to actually sanitize a site, though? A former weapons inspector told me that he was doubtful about this process because the Iraqis would have the capability to actually remove all trace of weapons manufacturing there.
We did hear in other reports that there were swabs and swipes taken out of this particular site.
LYSOBEY: Right. I think that when you talk about sanitizing a site, it really has two types of meanings -- two meanings. One would be sanitizing it of the documentation of the weapons programs, getting rid of all the documents. It's a problem that UNSCOM ran into, and it's been presented to the Security Council as such.
Another sanitizing would be getting rid of all traces of the weapons agents. There is advanced technology and new devices that these inspectors are taking in which will allow them to determine with more specificity while they're on the site whether or not weapons were actually being developed there.
LIN: It's remarkable how technology has improved where you might have used a room full of computers to analyze something, they now have these hand-held wands. It's amazing.
LYSOBEY: Absolutely. I think one of the things to remember is that we've got these new advanced technologies, which are going to make things easier for us. The Iraqis, on the other hand, have had eight years of experience with UNSCOM to develop their concealment mechanisms and another four years to presumably develop their weapons program and perfect their concealment mechanisms even more. So that's going to be the challenge, I think, for the inspectors.
LIN: A big challenge, indeed. All right, thank you very much, Michael Lysobey, former U.N. weapons inspector for joining us today.
LYSOBEY: Thank you, Carol.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
