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American Morning

Talk with Ambassador Joe Wilson

Aired November 29, 2002 - 08:32   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Want to get back to our top story this morning. President Bush pledging to help officials in Kenya and in Israeli to hunt down the terrorists responsible for the attacks this week. But the U.S. is taking somewhat of a wait-and-see attitude about whether or not Al Qaeda was involved.
Let's get to Crawford, our senior White House correspondent John King, who is tracking the reaction from there.

John, good morning.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill.

That wait and see attitude, because some of the administration are split. They want to see the evidence from this investigation. U.S. officials in Kenya will meet today with Kenyan and Israeli investigators, a, to find out what they know, and, b, to offer any help possible, perhaps Pentagon analysis and perhaps help in the intelligence or the law enforcement community.

Initial reactions yesterday, some officials counter intelligence officials in the administration immediately came to the conclusion that attack in Kenya has the fingerprints of Al Qaeda because of the use of the surface-to-air missiles.

But others believe, however, this might be the work of Palestinian and extremist groups who have long been after Israel. So they are waiting for the evidence.

The president, meanwhile, expressing his condolences in a statement from the ranch saying, I condemn in the strongest possible terms the terrorist attacks. The president went on to say, "Those who seek peace must do everything in their power to dismantle the infrastructure of terror that makes such actions possible. One concern in the administration, bill, perhaps an effort, some officials think, to stoke up anti-Israeli and anti-American sentiment in the Arab and Muslim world at this critical juncture in the now diplomatic confrontation with Iraq.

But officials say when it comes to Al Qaeda, whether there this is a pattern of something to come, they want to analyze the information being gathered in these urgent investigations.

HEMMER: John, let's pick up quickly on this point. Australia apparently put out a warning to its citizens in eastern Africa two weeks ago. Was this on the radar of U.S. officials at all? Did it relate at all to Americans, or do we know that?

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They believe this attack was related solely to Israel, but not sure whether it's part of a pattern like the attacks in Bali directed at Australians, a Western nation, an ally of the United States in the war on terrorism. They're not sure whether it's an isolated attack on Israel, or whether it is part of an attempt to attack the United States and its allies around the world.

U.S. officials have put Americans overseas on alert to be vigilant. Officials now saying they have no credible evidence of any planned attacks here in the United States or any specific targets overseas, but you can be certain they will analyze the evidence of this investigation and be quite vigilant.

HEMMER: Thank you, John. John King in Crawford with the president.

Yesterday's bombing, another tragic chapter in the history of terrorism in Africa and around the world, for that matter.

Is the continent, though, especially vulnerable to such attacks? Four years ago, the U.S. embassy in Tanzania and Kenya was bombed by Al Qaeda. Ambassador Joseph Wilson was special assistant to the president then, senior director for African affairs of the National Security Council, from 1997 through mid 1998. He left that post just one month before the embassy bombings. Ambassador Wilson is back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING in D.C.

Good to see you again. Good morning to you.

AMB. JOSEPH WILSON: Good morning, Bill. Hope you had a good Thanksgiving.

HEMMER: Indeed. And yourself?

WILSON: Indeed.

HEMMER: Excellent.

Twenty years in Africa, what makes Eastern Africa in your estimation ripe or fertile country, or countries rather, for the foundation of terrorist groups to really prosper? Do you see it that way? Is it in that condition right now, or are we a ways away from that?

WILSON: It's more than just Eastern Africa. It's a whole swathe across the continent. When I was in West Africa, in the Congo, in fact, there was an attack on a UTA airliner. A suitcase bomb got into it in Brazavil (ph) and it blew up over the Sahara Desert. So it is a really a function of a whole continent that suffers from poor governance, bad security, failing political and economic systems, and we've been arguing for many years that if, for no other reason, than for our own strategic interest, we need to be engaged in a meaningful dialogue with the governments of the 47 countries on the continent.

HEMMER: Al Qaeda and the Taliban dispersed in Afghanistan, how likely would it be these groups would flock to Africa for cover?

WILSON: One of the things we've seen over the years is where there are soft regimes, you have the growth of organizations whose interests are enemical (ph) to ours, whether they be international criminal organizations, drug traffickers or money launderers, or other cartels or terrorists, or any combination of them.

So it's safe to assume that so long as security is poor, countries, borders are porous, and there is a resident population that may be sympathetic to the cause, that these groups will go in there.

Moreover, a lot of these countries provide soft targets for terrorist actions. We've seen that now twice in Kenya and then again in Dar Es Salaam four years ago when they hit the American embassy there.

HEMMER: I want to pick up on that point. You have said that there are targets that day back in August of 1998, three or four others on the target list were not hit. Do you know what the targets were? What was the intent there? And why were those acts not nearly as successful as we saw with the embassy bombings?

WILSON: No, I actually don't. I was out of government at that time, so I really have no particular information on other targets. But it is certainly safe to assume that one of Al Qaeda's modus operandi is to hit several targets simultaneously. They did that in the Tanzania bombings, they did that in the World Trade Center and Pentagon bombings. In fact, I would suspect that that is one of the leading indicators that Al Qaeda has been behind the most recent bombing in Mombasa.

HEMMER: Also, in 1998, was there any indicators out there, was there any evidence publicly that may have suggested publicly that the attacks were about to take place the way they did?

WILSON: Well, certainly not in the months leading up to my departure, which was in June. These attacks took place in August. So whether there were indicators, whether there was a so-called chatter in the months -- in the month of July, I really don't know.

HEMMER: You think...

WILSON: Clearly, we have been concerned about the growth of terrorist cells across Africa for any number of years, certainly for the last 15 years that I served in Africa.

HEMMER: I want to get you on record before we say goodbye. Al Qaeda, responsible or not, in your estimation?

WILSON: Well, I think certainly all of the indicators are, and I would -- if I were going to rush to judgment, it would be pointing the finger at Al Qaeda rather than some of the other groups that have been mentioned. It has -- it certainly has a lot of indicators that are similar to what Al Qaeda has done in the past.

HEMMER: Thank you, sir. Ambassador Wilson in D.C., enjoy your weekend, OK.

WILSON: I'm trying to get out and play a little golf today. It's cold, but will do it.

HEMMER: Long and strong, my friend. Take care.

WILSON: Bye-bye. Thanks a lot.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com







Aired November 29, 2002 - 08:32   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Want to get back to our top story this morning. President Bush pledging to help officials in Kenya and in Israeli to hunt down the terrorists responsible for the attacks this week. But the U.S. is taking somewhat of a wait-and-see attitude about whether or not Al Qaeda was involved.
Let's get to Crawford, our senior White House correspondent John King, who is tracking the reaction from there.

John, good morning.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Bill.

That wait and see attitude, because some of the administration are split. They want to see the evidence from this investigation. U.S. officials in Kenya will meet today with Kenyan and Israeli investigators, a, to find out what they know, and, b, to offer any help possible, perhaps Pentagon analysis and perhaps help in the intelligence or the law enforcement community.

Initial reactions yesterday, some officials counter intelligence officials in the administration immediately came to the conclusion that attack in Kenya has the fingerprints of Al Qaeda because of the use of the surface-to-air missiles.

But others believe, however, this might be the work of Palestinian and extremist groups who have long been after Israel. So they are waiting for the evidence.

The president, meanwhile, expressing his condolences in a statement from the ranch saying, I condemn in the strongest possible terms the terrorist attacks. The president went on to say, "Those who seek peace must do everything in their power to dismantle the infrastructure of terror that makes such actions possible. One concern in the administration, bill, perhaps an effort, some officials think, to stoke up anti-Israeli and anti-American sentiment in the Arab and Muslim world at this critical juncture in the now diplomatic confrontation with Iraq.

But officials say when it comes to Al Qaeda, whether there this is a pattern of something to come, they want to analyze the information being gathered in these urgent investigations.

HEMMER: John, let's pick up quickly on this point. Australia apparently put out a warning to its citizens in eastern Africa two weeks ago. Was this on the radar of U.S. officials at all? Did it relate at all to Americans, or do we know that?

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They believe this attack was related solely to Israel, but not sure whether it's part of a pattern like the attacks in Bali directed at Australians, a Western nation, an ally of the United States in the war on terrorism. They're not sure whether it's an isolated attack on Israel, or whether it is part of an attempt to attack the United States and its allies around the world.

U.S. officials have put Americans overseas on alert to be vigilant. Officials now saying they have no credible evidence of any planned attacks here in the United States or any specific targets overseas, but you can be certain they will analyze the evidence of this investigation and be quite vigilant.

HEMMER: Thank you, John. John King in Crawford with the president.

Yesterday's bombing, another tragic chapter in the history of terrorism in Africa and around the world, for that matter.

Is the continent, though, especially vulnerable to such attacks? Four years ago, the U.S. embassy in Tanzania and Kenya was bombed by Al Qaeda. Ambassador Joseph Wilson was special assistant to the president then, senior director for African affairs of the National Security Council, from 1997 through mid 1998. He left that post just one month before the embassy bombings. Ambassador Wilson is back with us here on AMERICAN MORNING in D.C.

Good to see you again. Good morning to you.

AMB. JOSEPH WILSON: Good morning, Bill. Hope you had a good Thanksgiving.

HEMMER: Indeed. And yourself?

WILSON: Indeed.

HEMMER: Excellent.

Twenty years in Africa, what makes Eastern Africa in your estimation ripe or fertile country, or countries rather, for the foundation of terrorist groups to really prosper? Do you see it that way? Is it in that condition right now, or are we a ways away from that?

WILSON: It's more than just Eastern Africa. It's a whole swathe across the continent. When I was in West Africa, in the Congo, in fact, there was an attack on a UTA airliner. A suitcase bomb got into it in Brazavil (ph) and it blew up over the Sahara Desert. So it is a really a function of a whole continent that suffers from poor governance, bad security, failing political and economic systems, and we've been arguing for many years that if, for no other reason, than for our own strategic interest, we need to be engaged in a meaningful dialogue with the governments of the 47 countries on the continent.

HEMMER: Al Qaeda and the Taliban dispersed in Afghanistan, how likely would it be these groups would flock to Africa for cover?

WILSON: One of the things we've seen over the years is where there are soft regimes, you have the growth of organizations whose interests are enemical (ph) to ours, whether they be international criminal organizations, drug traffickers or money launderers, or other cartels or terrorists, or any combination of them.

So it's safe to assume that so long as security is poor, countries, borders are porous, and there is a resident population that may be sympathetic to the cause, that these groups will go in there.

Moreover, a lot of these countries provide soft targets for terrorist actions. We've seen that now twice in Kenya and then again in Dar Es Salaam four years ago when they hit the American embassy there.

HEMMER: I want to pick up on that point. You have said that there are targets that day back in August of 1998, three or four others on the target list were not hit. Do you know what the targets were? What was the intent there? And why were those acts not nearly as successful as we saw with the embassy bombings?

WILSON: No, I actually don't. I was out of government at that time, so I really have no particular information on other targets. But it is certainly safe to assume that one of Al Qaeda's modus operandi is to hit several targets simultaneously. They did that in the Tanzania bombings, they did that in the World Trade Center and Pentagon bombings. In fact, I would suspect that that is one of the leading indicators that Al Qaeda has been behind the most recent bombing in Mombasa.

HEMMER: Also, in 1998, was there any indicators out there, was there any evidence publicly that may have suggested publicly that the attacks were about to take place the way they did?

WILSON: Well, certainly not in the months leading up to my departure, which was in June. These attacks took place in August. So whether there were indicators, whether there was a so-called chatter in the months -- in the month of July, I really don't know.

HEMMER: You think...

WILSON: Clearly, we have been concerned about the growth of terrorist cells across Africa for any number of years, certainly for the last 15 years that I served in Africa.

HEMMER: I want to get you on record before we say goodbye. Al Qaeda, responsible or not, in your estimation?

WILSON: Well, I think certainly all of the indicators are, and I would -- if I were going to rush to judgment, it would be pointing the finger at Al Qaeda rather than some of the other groups that have been mentioned. It has -- it certainly has a lot of indicators that are similar to what Al Qaeda has done in the past.

HEMMER: Thank you, sir. Ambassador Wilson in D.C., enjoy your weekend, OK.

WILSON: I'm trying to get out and play a little golf today. It's cold, but will do it.

HEMMER: Long and strong, my friend. Take care.

WILSON: Bye-bye. Thanks a lot.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com